Halogen headlights

[andyborris]

"removed the sidelights"

Just pulled them out of the light and popped a rubber bung in it's place!

Not sure what to say about the E marking, I think I'd risk it. Most MOT testers are too busy looking for rust to notice an E mark.
Or just get some "CE" small stickers!

Also meant to say that the bulbs are the legal 55 watts ones.

Andy

[djw113uk]

HID Zenon
I have been thinking about these uprated lamps. You can get a kit on ebay now for about 60quid, and they are meant to be that much better again.
Anyone tried them yet?

[andyborris]

There is a bit of a problem for newer classic cars though, as the Ebay listing clearly states that they are not "E" marked and so there will be problems at MOT time for cars built after a certain date. I did a bit of research to check when E marking became a requirement for lights, but can't find the date. So went and had a look at my cars. The 2000 was built in 1972 and every light lens is marked with an E symbol - so it would seem that it precedes this date.

Kevin

E marks mostly apply to cars built after 1986, perhaps yours has had the lamps replaced some time after 1986?

Might be a bit optimistic to expect the original lamps after 35 years

Andy

[Jonathan Lewis]

There is a bit of a problem for newer classic cars though, as the Ebay listing clearly states that they are not "E" marked and so there will be problems at MOT time for cars built after a certain date. I did a bit of research to check when E marking became a requirement for lights, but can't find the date. So went and had a look at my cars. The 2000 was built in 1972 and every light lens is marked with an E symbol - so it would seem that it precedes this date.

Kevin

E marks mostly apply to cars built after 1986, perhaps yours has had the lamps replaced some time after 1986?

Might be a bit optimistic to expect the original lamps after 35 years

Andy

No claims to expert knowledge here, but I too thought that the adoption of 'E'-markings for lighting units was a lot earlier than 1986. One third-party reference I did find cited an adoption date of March 1970, though this might have been specific to the manufacturer concerned (Jaguar) rather than a legal requirement.

Regards,

[TedTaylor]

1.
As I understand it the MOT simply checks operation, condition and security.

This would be:
Whether they work correctly when switches are (or are not) operated. That the dip aim complies with the beam tester.
That there is no significant damage (chips/cracks) to the glass and reflector - however if the beam is not affected then it is not reason for failure, though I understand a hole in the glass is cause for failure.
That they are not loose.

The type of lens fitted (whether it has an 'e' marking) as I understand it is NOT part of the test. It is one of these weird anomalies where although something does not comply with Construction and Use Regulations it is not part of the MOT.

However I could stand to be corrected by a qualified MOT tester.

2.
The question is therefore whether the use of non 'e' marked lamps is legal if stopped by the Police. Rules cannot be applied retrospectively - i.e. if the type of lamp is the type originally fitted (e.g. sealed beam) it HAS to be accepted if it is functioning correctly. However what the situation is with retro fit items which are not the same type as original seems unclear.

This is probably something where a legal brain needs to comment or info may be in the web.

[TedTaylor]

1. I have done a bit more research and have come up with the following.

Constructions and Use regulations 1986.

Exemptions—General
4.—(1) Where a provision is applied by these Regulations to a motor vehicle first used on or after a specified date it does not apply to any vehicle manufactured at least six months before that date.

(2) Where an exemption from, or a relaxation of, a provision is applied by these Regulations to a motor vehicle first used before a specified date it shall also apply to a motor vehicle first used on or after that date if it was manufactured at least six months before that date.

In my opinion this would clearly imply that because the requirement for 'e' or similar approval markings were brought in by these regulations they cannot be applied to our vehicles. So retro fitting of non-'e' marking components is all right PROVIDED they comply with the requirements of an MOT with relation to the testing with a beam tester.

It is a case of if you are stopped by the Police you have to quote this and see what they say.


2. An additional observation on the use of HID lights where a recent EU ruling has declared HiD units (intense blue-white light) is outlawed in classic cars.

These bulbs can only be fitted to a car with E-marked lenses approved to UNECE Regulation 98. This requires the lamps to be self-levelling, or fitted to a car that self-levels, and must have washers fitted.

This is eminently sensible because incorrectly set HID lights are a serious hazard at night.


Now over to any legal experts

[kevinw]

Some further digging of earlier Construction & Use regulations (but I can't find which - most annoying) states as follows:

Each lamp must:
have an approval mark if on a vehicle first used on or after 1 January 1972 or a trailer manufactured on or after 1 October 1985;
meet specified angles of visibility if on a motor vehicle used on or after 1 April 1986 or a trailer manufactured on or after 1 October 1985;
be either white or yellow.

(my italics)

Luckily, car MOT's are not as rigorous as HGV and PSV tests where E markings of lights, mirros and glass are most certainly checked. I had a coach fail an MOT purely because the E marking on the driver's window had faded.

Kevin

[CAR]

Well my estate has very low wattage LED sidelight lamps (bulbs are placed in the ground and in time give flowers!) and the original sealed beams.
The sidelight lamps are not strictly legal, but I have had no problems yet, but because of their slightly blue hue, I believe they are more easily noticed, much like the daylight running lights fitted on a number of cars now.
They also have the advantage of being low wattage and so less power consuming... this will help the battery if using the parking light facility or just forgetting to switch them off!

The pi on the other hand has halogens, cibies I believe, they were fitted already when I bought the car and without relays. Main beam has never worked as the switch was already burnt out......you fit Halogens without relays at your peril!
It also has the sidelights in the dip beam, these are in conjunction with the existing sidelights and I have to agree with those who have noted the merits of this setup.

Whilst everyone is trying to improve their night vision, spare a thought for your rear lights.
Lamps degrade with time and even a fresh set of stop n tails will brighten your rear end no end.
Saloons with the night time brakelight dimming relay should really have this removed at once, and some industrial foil tape, as used by pipe laggers, can be used to great effect to improve the reflective qualities of the reflector units.

Or alternatively, just stay home if it's dark, raining, foggy or even mildly inclement...........but you'll probably never get to use the car

Colin.

[kevinw]

Some further digging of earlier Construction & Use regulations (but I can't find which - most annoying) states as follows:

Each lamp must:
have an approval mark if on a vehicle first used on or after 1 January 1972 or a trailer manufactured on or after 1 October 1985;
meet specified angles of visibility if on a motor vehicle used on or after 1 April 1986 or a trailer manufactured on or after 1 October 1985;
be either white or yellow.

(my italics)

Luckily, car MOT's are not as rigorous as HGV and PSV tests where E markings of lights, mirros and glass are most certainly checked. I had a coach fail an MOT purely because the E marking on the driver's window had faded.

Kevin

I know you shouldn't quote your own postings, and certainly not reply to yourself , but...

The stuff above resulted from the Vienna Convention of 1968 and was put into UK law by the Road Transport Lighting Regulations (1968). The MOT manual for cars and bikes also states that the lack of an approval mark is not a reason to refuse the issue of a certificate. Even if you get caught, it isn;t endorsable and would probably be dealt with by way of a VDRS.

Kevin

[andyborris]

Saloons with the night time brakelight dimming relay should really have this removed at once

Colin.

What, where, how?

Is it fitted to a MK1?

Andy