hello i have a triumph 2.5pi estate 1973 (2 weeks out of being tax exempt) has had 1 owner, 47000 miles.
when i got the vehicle the throttle bodies where seized i managed to purchas the same bodies from a chap who had loads of spares, i gave him the numbers of mine v3299, i fitted these and it appeared to run o.k then once the car was M.O.Ted id got it back and the small dog on the metering unit shattered, to cut a long story short i have now had a new metering unit fitted by quiller triumph, recon injectors from rimmer bros and it still has great trouble starting from cold if it starts at all and also seems impossible to set up. i think this has a different set up to what is in all the manuals i have on this car.
does anyone have any idea of what could be wrong or of someone who could look at the car on the kent/south london boarders, i wasnt to impressed with quiller but to be fare there main machanic was of with a broken leg.
please this is the last chance before i ebay the car as im at my wits end and nobody seems to be able to work on these cars anymore
Regards Pete<edited><editID>d16pjm</editID><editDate>39446.9469791667</editDate></edited>
2.5 pi nightmare
A PI estate, for heavens sake don\'t ebay it!
It\'s probably something fairly simple. Prestige injection in Wrexham? A fair distance away from you but worth a call.
Worst case, put carbs on it and run it like that.
Unless you fancy selling it to me cheaply!!<IMG> Seriously, PM me if you do!
It\'s probably something fairly simple. Prestige injection in Wrexham? A fair distance away from you but worth a call.
Worst case, put carbs on it and run it like that.
Unless you fancy selling it to me cheaply!!<IMG> Seriously, PM me if you do!
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Alan Chatterton
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2945
- Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:18 pm
- Location: Redditch, Worcestershire
Pete,
DO NOT SELL IT!!!!
All PI problems are easily sorted now that we have 30 odd years worth of experience in how to sort and set up!
Lets do this step by step, and we\'ll get there.
First off, IGNORE all of the manuals you have. They will all have the wrong data in. The timing of the metering unit is wrong and most of them only tell you the very basis stuff. In an ideal world you should buy either the Red PI book (see Six Appeal, Club Bookshop) or better still a copy of the Register Service notes. This will tell you all about setting up PI systems.
However, first off, most PI problems are nothing to do with the injection system!!! Its just that it gets a reputation for being a problem so everyone assumes that it is the injection system.
For the fuel injection to work, the engine must be in in good condition and the rest of it must be set up and running correctly. The fuel delivery system is the last thing to play with.
So, 1st checks first.
Answers to some questions first please.
1) Does your dizzy have vacuum advance on it? (small black pipe going over the top of the engine
2)How have you set the igntion timing?
3)Have you had the fuel pressure set by a gauge?
4)Do you have a voltage reader? (electrical tester which will measure the voltage of things.....cost about £5.00......if not, get one!)
Then, either reply here, and we can all chip in, or email me off line <A>alanjchatterton@aol.com</A>.
We WILL get it running right...........beingbeing as we are several hundred miles away it may take some time as I have to get you to do things, then report back!
Don\'t dispair.........!
<IMG>
DO NOT SELL IT!!!!
All PI problems are easily sorted now that we have 30 odd years worth of experience in how to sort and set up!
Lets do this step by step, and we\'ll get there.
First off, IGNORE all of the manuals you have. They will all have the wrong data in. The timing of the metering unit is wrong and most of them only tell you the very basis stuff. In an ideal world you should buy either the Red PI book (see Six Appeal, Club Bookshop) or better still a copy of the Register Service notes. This will tell you all about setting up PI systems.
However, first off, most PI problems are nothing to do with the injection system!!! Its just that it gets a reputation for being a problem so everyone assumes that it is the injection system.
For the fuel injection to work, the engine must be in in good condition and the rest of it must be set up and running correctly. The fuel delivery system is the last thing to play with.
So, 1st checks first.
Answers to some questions first please.
1) Does your dizzy have vacuum advance on it? (small black pipe going over the top of the engine
2)How have you set the igntion timing?
3)Have you had the fuel pressure set by a gauge?
4)Do you have a voltage reader? (electrical tester which will measure the voltage of things.....cost about £5.00......if not, get one!)
Then, either reply here, and we can all chip in, or email me off line <A>alanjchatterton@aol.com</A>.
We WILL get it running right...........beingbeing as we are several hundred miles away it may take some time as I have to get you to do things, then report back!
Don\'t dispair.........!
<IMG>
Hi Pete
Don\'t depair regarding your car, I\'m sure it can be sorted out. I\'ve recently converted a 2000 estate into a 2500 PI using bits that one person said must have been retrieved from the bottom of a pond!
There are some specialists in your area who can help you perhaps you should consider some of the people who service and build the TR range as they have considerable PI expertise e.g. Enginuity, Revington TR, Manvers Triumph etc.
Please PM me and I will give you all the help I can if you want full names and addresses or if you want to try to sort it yourself.
Kind regards
David
Don\'t depair regarding your car, I\'m sure it can be sorted out. I\'ve recently converted a 2000 estate into a 2500 PI using bits that one person said must have been retrieved from the bottom of a pond!
There are some specialists in your area who can help you perhaps you should consider some of the people who service and build the TR range as they have considerable PI expertise e.g. Enginuity, Revington TR, Manvers Triumph etc.
Please PM me and I will give you all the help I can if you want full names and addresses or if you want to try to sort it yourself.
Kind regards
David
hello thanks for thre quick reply due to a bad back im unable to look at the car at the moment, hopefully by the end of the week, i do not want to sell this car it is in honeysuckle, been garaged all its life and still has all the plastics on the interior, i dont really want to convert to carbs partly as id like to keep it original and also iv spent close to a Thousand pounds on the injection system, quiller triumph told me they would replace the injectors (iv now done this), injection pipes, PRV, pump etc at a cost of over £1000, this seems a bit extreme for a car that was running o.k and with such low milage and this has kind of disheartened me.
as i say thanks for your help and will post back as soon as i have been able to check the car, iv not had the fuel pressure tested, its had a new pedistall and metering unit which was set up by quiller, its had new plugs, leads, points, condenser,distributer cap, oil, filter and fuel filter and coil, i set the timing statically at top dead centre as that is what the manual said but to be honest have adjusted when running and doesnt apear to make a big difference in starting.
Thanks Pete<edited><editID>d16pjm</editID><editDate>39447.4560648148</editDate></edited>
as i say thanks for your help and will post back as soon as i have been able to check the car, iv not had the fuel pressure tested, its had a new pedistall and metering unit which was set up by quiller, its had new plugs, leads, points, condenser,distributer cap, oil, filter and fuel filter and coil, i set the timing statically at top dead centre as that is what the manual said but to be honest have adjusted when running and doesnt apear to make a big difference in starting.
Thanks Pete<edited><editID>d16pjm</editID><editDate>39447.4560648148</editDate></edited>
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Alan Chatterton
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2945
- Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:18 pm
- Location: Redditch, Worcestershire
So, when it does finally start, does it run ok..........?
First thing I would check is the fuel pressure. You need 106psi at the metering unit. A few psi either way is ok, but anything below 100 and it\'ll not run properly!
Next thing to check, put a voltmeter across the fuel pump and see what voltage you are getting with the ignition swtiched on, under cranking and with the engine running.
Then, put a volt meter on the positive side of the coil with the ignition turned on, should be 6v. Then check it whilst cranking the engine, should now be 12v.
Check these, then let us know.
First thing I would check is the fuel pressure. You need 106psi at the metering unit. A few psi either way is ok, but anything below 100 and it\'ll not run properly!
Next thing to check, put a voltmeter across the fuel pump and see what voltage you are getting with the ignition swtiched on, under cranking and with the engine running.
Then, put a volt meter on the positive side of the coil with the ignition turned on, should be 6v. Then check it whilst cranking the engine, should now be 12v.
Check these, then let us know.
Hello Pete, <br><br>I\'m sure Quiller\'s will have fitted and timed the metering unit competently, but even the best forget things like connecting the over fuel lever? (Choke). This is on the metering unit, block side, and is rather hidden. I only mention this as P.I.\'s usually are good at starting, even if many other factors are way off.<br><br>Alec<br>
hello iv done a couple of the checks you told me to do and now think i could have a sparking issue as the spark seems to be strong then weak then strong etc, iv checked the voltages at the coil and i have 5.2 volts with the ignition on and when cranking between 5 and 7, obviously i will change the points and condenser again but is there anythink else it can be as its all new.
i also checked the voltage at the fuel pump and i have 12 volts with ignition on and 10.4 when cranking but unable to get it running at present.
also when i do get this running it runs o.k but feels like it needs balancing so ticks over fine but when driving feels a bit lumpy, could this be down to the spark again?
Regards Pete
i also checked the voltage at the fuel pump and i have 12 volts with ignition on and 10.4 when cranking but unable to get it running at present.
also when i do get this running it runs o.k but feels like it needs balancing so ticks over fine but when driving feels a bit lumpy, could this be down to the spark again?
Regards Pete
Hello Pete, <br><br>it could be that the replacement coil is the wrong voltage, a standard 12 volt coil will not work as the ignition has a ballast resistor in line with the coil feed. You should get battery voltage when cranking (whatever that may drop to) and 6 to 8 volts with the engine running. <br>You must have the correct coil to match this system. You can do a quick check by connecting a cable temporarily to the coil from the battery. Do not leave this connected for long, just enough to see if it helps, as if you have the correct coil it will overheat and eventually burn out with too high a supply voltage.<br><br>Alec<br>
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Alan Chatterton
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2945
- Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:18 pm
- Location: Redditch, Worcestershire
Okay, Alec and I are thinking along the same lines.
The coil is designed to run at 6v.......but, on cranking the starter, it should get 12v to help start the engine otherwise it will NEVER fire!
On the back of the starter motor there are 2 spade connectors, a big one and a small one. The big one is the one from the ignition switch to engage the solenoid, the small one is the aux 12v supply to the coil on cranking. Check that this is connected. (easier with the airbox removed.)
If it is connected, then the wire has broken somewhere in the loom. Just run a wire from the + side of the coil down to this small spade connector and it will be fixed.
Or, to test the theory, as Alec suggest, just run a wire from the + side of the coil to the + side of the battery, hence giving the coil a clean 12v supply and try starting the car. Do not run it for more than a few minutes like this as you could damage the coil/points/condensor, but as a test it is fine.
This was exactly the problem my friends TR6 had, refused to start, until we did this.
Thus, with the wire re-instated, in normal running the coil is using 6v (as it is now) and gets an extra boost of 12v to help it start.
As for the voltage drop on the fuel pump, this is normal, but not pefect. I always re-wire the fuel pump using a 30amp relay, use the original wiring as the switching side of the relay, run a good heavy duty cable from the battery to the load side of the relay. This way the pump gets 12v clean, but becuase you are using the orignal wiring as the switching side, the inertia cut off switch still works.
Try the coil test first, then try and start it.
If it works, consider modifiying the fuel pump as it is recommended.
Then, let us know how it is and what we need to look at next!
The coil is designed to run at 6v.......but, on cranking the starter, it should get 12v to help start the engine otherwise it will NEVER fire!
On the back of the starter motor there are 2 spade connectors, a big one and a small one. The big one is the one from the ignition switch to engage the solenoid, the small one is the aux 12v supply to the coil on cranking. Check that this is connected. (easier with the airbox removed.)
If it is connected, then the wire has broken somewhere in the loom. Just run a wire from the + side of the coil down to this small spade connector and it will be fixed.
Or, to test the theory, as Alec suggest, just run a wire from the + side of the coil to the + side of the battery, hence giving the coil a clean 12v supply and try starting the car. Do not run it for more than a few minutes like this as you could damage the coil/points/condensor, but as a test it is fine.
This was exactly the problem my friends TR6 had, refused to start, until we did this.
Thus, with the wire re-instated, in normal running the coil is using 6v (as it is now) and gets an extra boost of 12v to help it start.
As for the voltage drop on the fuel pump, this is normal, but not pefect. I always re-wire the fuel pump using a 30amp relay, use the original wiring as the switching side of the relay, run a good heavy duty cable from the battery to the load side of the relay. This way the pump gets 12v clean, but becuase you are using the orignal wiring as the switching side, the inertia cut off switch still works.
Try the coil test first, then try and start it.
If it works, consider modifiying the fuel pump as it is recommended.
Then, let us know how it is and what we need to look at next!