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Re: Triumph 6 cylinder engine death rattle - please explain
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:48 pm
by iani
johnnydog wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 1:54 pm
<snip>
Another point to bear in mind is to check that the filters supplied actually do have a non return valve - those recommended from CW do have the non return valve, but some other makes and some shorter filters don't, which defeats the object of the conversion.
</snip>
I've never understood why a non-return valve should be needed in a filter that is fitted downwards, there is no vacuum in the block to suck oil back into a stopped motor surely?
Re: Triumph 6 cylinder engine death rattle - please explain
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:12 pm
by Clifford Pope
I think because it syphons back, doesn't it?
Also I think the oil in the oilways up in the block can run back, through the filter, if there is no non-return valve.
Re: Triumph 6 cylinder engine death rattle - please explain
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:35 pm
by Forkie
Firstly, many thanks to the 'responders' - this forum seems really in-active since i was first here in the mid to late 2000's ( there must be a pun there somewhere) - Facebook take over i assume, which i have no interest in. Secondly - since posting up this afternoon on a rare day off - i had a re-think - i got the current oil filter wrong. So i gave my tech guy the second, 15 year old but unused Moss GFE166 filter - which was purchased in 2007. I have no idea if this has a non return valve or not. All i do know is something has occurred between 2008 - 2022 - with no miles run - to cause these current issues.
Re: Triumph 6 cylinder engine death rattle - please explain
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:44 pm
by Forkie
As a postscript - my lad , who has been sooo excited about KNG finally moving at the end of last year, has already laid down the rules - i am not allowed to sell it, under ANY circumstances. So at least that is one good thing - he seems keen, as i have already told him the car is yours to take over....
Re: Triumph 6 cylinder engine death rattle - please explain
Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2023 9:43 pm
by johnnydog
Forkie wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:35 pm
Firstly, many thanks to the 'responders' - this forum seems really in-active since i was first here in the mid to late 2000's ( there must be a pun there somewhere) - Facebook take over i assume, which i have no interest in. Secondly - since posting up this afternoon on a rare day off - i had a re-think - i got the current oil filter wrong. So i gave my tech guy the second, 15 year old but unused Moss GFE166 filter - which was purchased in 2007. I have no idea if this has a non return valve or not. All i do know is something has occurred between 2008 - 2022 - with no miles run - to cause these current issues.
The original long filters supplied with a non return valve for use with the oil filter conversion were Fram PH2895 or Coopers Z48.
I understand Fram PH2825 filters were also fitted with an 'anti drain back valve'.
Re: Triumph 6 cylinder engine death rattle - please explain
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2023 3:23 pm
by iani
Clifford Pope wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:12 pm
I think because it syphons back, doesn't it?
Also I think the oil in the oilways up in the block can run back, through the filter, if there is no non-return valve.
To syphon back there would have to be a vacuum in the block, I don't believe there is one, I've certainly never noticed it when removing the dipstick.
Re: Triumph 6 cylinder engine death rattle - please explain
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2023 5:47 pm
by Forkie
Ok so i have been doing loads more research on this, and perhaps i should of done this before - i have been trawling back through past posts and found a really good example from July 16 2020 from 'Gary NZ' entitled ' Knocking on start up', . I read that with avid interest, made easier as he had lots of replies. He had issues - similar to mine, although he insisted his engine was knocking, i still say mine is a rattle.... he changed the oil, and oil filter from what he had fitted and it seemed to of cured it.
So just to re- cap - i now currently have a Moss GFE166 short filter fitted ( non return valve fitted unknown, of 2007 vintage) hung at a 45 % ish angle due to pipework interference, Halfords Classic 20/50 oil and a Linconshire based firm's oil pressure switch fitted.
I am proposing to scrap all that lot and fit a CW filter, Bosch 0451103101 listed as non return valve fitted, Penrite 20/60 oil and a new oil pressure switch from C.W.
Any feedback from that would be great.
Re: Triumph 6 cylinder engine death rattle - please explain
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2023 6:03 pm
by iani
Forkie wrote: Sun Apr 30, 2023 5:47 pm
Ok so i have been doing loads more research on this, and perhaps i should of done this before - i have been trawling back through past posts and found a really good example from July 16 2020 from 'Gary NZ' entitled ' Knocking on start up', . I read that with avid interest, made easier as he had lots of replies. He had issues - similar to mine, although he insisted his engine was knocking, i still say mine is a rattle.... he changed the oil, and oil filter from what he had fitted and it seemed to of cured it.
So just to re- cap - i now currently have a Moss GFE166 short filter fitted ( non return valve fitted unknown, of 2007 vintage) hung at a 45 % ish angle due to pipework interference, Halfords Classic 20/50 oil and a Linconshire based firm's oil pressure switch fitted.
I am proposing to scrap all that lot and fit a CW filter, Bosch 0451103101 listed as non return valve fitted, Penrite 20/60 oil and a new oil pressure switch from C.W.
Any feedback from that would be great.
Out of interest, have you checked the condition of your timing chain & tensioner? if worn that could be giving you a rattle, especially at startup. What pipework is fouling your filter? both my Mk1 2000 & MK PI have long filters fitted at near vertical without any fouling.
Re: Triumph 6 cylinder engine death rattle - please explain
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2023 6:28 pm
by Forkie
Hi Ian - in short no, timing chain/tensioner has not been checked, simply because nothing has changed/disturbed in that area during the long lay up , and all was fine before, but that is a fair shout to do so.... i am open to suggestions, and i am obviously basing all my opinions on how things were 15 years ago..
She has literally just turned 48k a couple weeks ago - and the timing chain i would assume is original. Could this be something that i need to consider - i was on the understanding a chain stretches through high mileages but does not deteriorate through age, unlike the modern rubber timing belt, which does .
The pipework that is in the way of a 'vertical stance' of the filter i THINK is the pipework for the auto trans. ( 2500S Auto).
Thanks, Forkie.
Re: Triumph 6 cylinder engine death rattle - please explain
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2023 6:42 pm
by Forkie
Thinking on - whilst i now think the timing chain might be worth a look - if that item was bad in any way - would that explain the 12 second build up of oil pressure to put the oil light out ,on a crank over start up with no choke applied, with a rich running rear SU carb...