Genuine help from you experts needed!!

Other technical Issues with the Triumph 2000 range
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Forkie
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Re: Genuine help from you experts needed!!

#71 Post by Forkie » Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:33 pm

So after the tweaks that were done last week, which included another new set of NGK's, dizzy cap and black silicone leads- all from CW, we ended up leaving all the original air intake as stock apart fom removing original air filter from the box and modifying a K&N to fit tightly into said box to hopefully let it breathe a bit better, and fitted an oil catch can , with some reworking of the the 3 branch breather pipework so that all the crap no longer goes back into the engine. None of this work has involved any drilling of new holes etc, so can easily be reversed if needed- i was not having the car vandalised so to speak !!!!
So with the above done, coupled with the SU's now tuned etc it was ready for another test drive....so, as it always has done , started well, no idling issues etc. So whilst i do agree that there is more pull away power now than before, a bit more responsive on that front, but it does still seem power at top end is still down? So 50mph on my speedo was met, and on the chaps phone speed app that was reading 56mph. But, that was about it, did not feel there was anymore mph's to be had? And it did, in my opinion, feel that it was working hard. The guy reckons that that is about it for this engine, mated to an Auto box, which was why i asked about what top speed should i expect.....and by John's reply, i should at least expect mid 60's fairly comfortably? I know it was a long time ago now but i am fairly sure it did not feel like that when i brought her back from Norfolk. So thats why i am still thinking something still sounds amiss.
To add insult to injury after this particular test drive, he suspected the alternator is over charging, looking at my voltmeter ..... a few tests later when back in the garage - yep, it is over charging :roll: so yet another new part to be fitted. It is almost a brand new car :o
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Forkie
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Re: Genuine help from you experts needed!!

#72 Post by Forkie » Sat Feb 24, 2024 9:02 pm

So does anyone think i may still have an issue with the auto box?
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johnnydog
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Re: Genuine help from you experts needed!!

#73 Post by johnnydog » Sat Feb 24, 2024 11:43 pm

Forkie wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:33 pm
So after the tweaks that were done last week, which included another new set of NGK's, dizzy cap and black silicone leads- all from CW, we ended up leaving all the original air intake as stock apart fom removing original air filter from the box and modifying a K&N to fit tightly into said box to hopefully let it breathe a bit better, and fitted an oil catch can , with some reworking of the the 3 branch breather pipework so that all the crap no longer goes back into the engine. None of this work has involved any drilling of new holes etc, so can easily be reversed if needed- i was not having the car vandalised so to speak !!!!
So with the above done, coupled with the SU's now tuned etc it was ready for another test drive....so, as it always has done , started well, no idling issues etc. So whilst i do agree that there is more pull away power now than before, a bit more responsive on that front, but it does still seem power at top end is still down? So 50mph on my speedo was met, and on the chaps phone speed app that was reading 56mph. But, that was about it, did not feel there was anymore mph's to be had? And it did, in my opinion, feel that it was working hard. The guy reckons that that is about it for this engine, mated to an Auto box, which was why i asked about what top speed should i expect.....and by John's reply, i should at least expect mid 60's fairly comfortably? I know it was a long time ago now but i am fairly sure it did not feel like that when i brought her back from Norfolk. So thats why i am still thinking something still sounds amiss.
To add insult to injury after this particular test drive, he suspected the alternator is over charging, looking at my voltmeter ..... a few tests later when back in the garage - yep, it is over charging :roll: so yet another new part to be fitted. It is almost a brand new car :o
I am bit puzzled re your comment about 'your guy stating that your engine mated to an auto box that would be about it'?
The speeds I have outlined for my various Triumphs is purely the speed taking into account a combination of the road / engine / transmission noise that the car is happy at, and 'purring' so to speak. They are all capable of much greater speeds, but the cars just feel comfortable at those speeds I outlined.
I still think the carburettor settings are playing a big part in your issues. The 'hunting' you are describing being irregular and 'misses' a beat, suggests the mixture is weak - a rich mixture in my experience is a more constant and even 'buh buh' (as you call it). However, if you are happy that the carbs are right, and that the gearbox is possibly the cause, the first thing I would do (and the chespest) is a couple of oil changes (with a short run in between) to ensure the oil is as clean and fresh as possible, as the torque convertor and oil cooler (if fitted) always retain some oil on draining the auto gearbox fluid.
If you still suspect the auto transmission, could the torque convertor be failing?
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1967 Mk1 2000 in Gunmetal Grey
1969 Mk1 2000 in Royal Blue
1970 Mk2 2000 in Valencia Blue
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1973 Mk2 2.5 PI in Sienna Brown
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Re: Genuine help from you experts needed!!

#74 Post by Forkie » Sun Feb 25, 2024 12:49 pm

No, neither do i !!!!! He appears really switched on with it all, he has done numerous checks and tests and all seems fine, carbs aside when he started his checks. The engine is no longer hunting or anything now, since he has adjusted the carbs.
So to re cap - the gearbox oil has been flushed out 3 times and a new filter fitted over Christmas. The old oil appeared fine, and barely any contaminents in the filter. New plugs, leads and cap, new battery, n.o.s. fuel pump ( original glass dome) and the fuel delivery has been checked and is spot on. Compression test on engine showed all 6 cylinders at 152, so that to me indicates all is well inside. Points checked and re checked. New coil. It starts on the button fine, hot or cold. Idles now when warm around 750 and purrs evenly. Absolutely no deviation from dead center with the temperature guage, as has always been the case. Float bowls are clean. In line fuel filter clean.
Basically i cannot think of any other reason why at 56 mph there is no more. Since the carbs have been set there is a marked difference pulling away etc, so better at ' town ' driving, but was obviously disappointed that this does not appear to have given much more at the top end . I have suspected the 'box right from the start. As a p.s. , my drive is an incline up to the road from the garage. If i reverse out and up on to the road, there is a funny kind of squeel. I am sure i do not hear that if i drive up nose first.
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1975 TRIUMPH 2500S AUTO ESTATE IN BRG!

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Re: Genuine help from you experts needed!!

#75 Post by johnnydog » Sun Feb 25, 2024 1:36 pm

By the sounds of it, you have checked / re checked everything ignition / engine/ fuel related, so you should be reasonably confident that everything is 100% in that department.
You say you have suspected the auto box from the start - I recollect there are some static and mobile checks that you can carry out on the auto gearbox that are outlined in the official workshop manual. I am away at the moment so I can't check what they are, but they may be worth doing if only as a starting point.
I have a 2000 Mk1 auto that has a subtle whine when pulling away, especially on an incline, which disappears after the revs and the vehicle movement increases. I have noticied it on other Triumph autos too, but there is no suggestion of any 'slipping'.
The reluctance to attain speeds over 56 mph seems strange though, but with everything else ruled out, a gearbox fault or torque convertor issue may be worth investigation, in conjuction with the checks referred to above?
I've been told that automatic gearboxes don't like standing idle or long periods of inactivity - how much truth there is in that, I'm not sure, but as your car has not been used for a long period, could this be a contributory factor? I'm sure someone with knowledge of BW autoboxes would be able to confirm if there is any truth in this suggestion?
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1967 Mk1 2000 in Gunmetal Grey
1969 Mk1 2000 in Royal Blue
1970 Mk2 2000 in Valencia Blue
1972 Mk2 2.5 PI in Triumph White
1973 Mk2 2.5 PI in Sienna Brown
1976 Mk2 2500S in Carmine Red

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Re: Genuine help from you experts needed!!

#76 Post by Forkie » Sun Feb 25, 2024 2:19 pm

Hi John and thank you for your continued input. So the subtle whine you hear is more than likely what i also hear, so maybe just a trait then. Well i had a while back when i first thought 'gearbox', noticed some test procedures, but these procedures mention the 'L' selector - the first test, the Stall Test, for example, asked for ' L' to be selected - mine does not have a position 'L' - so that kind of threw me!!!
The reason i thought of the 'box more or less right away 13 months ago was it was not accelerating anything like it used to, i could just feel it was not right. I then started researching and came to the same conclusion as you suggest, they do not like long lay ups, and as mine had been idle for 14 years......i then came across this comment - ' Poor acceleration in 3rd gear above 30mph AND REDUCED MAXIMUM SPEED indicates the stator uni-directional clutch has seized. The stator will not rotate with the turbine and impeller, and the ' fluid flywheel' phase cannot occur. If this has occured however the stall speed will be correct.'
As soon as i read that i was convinced, as that sums it up to a tee. Althought the tuning on the carbs has improved things at low speeds, nothing has really changed at the other end. I have even rang my local transmission guys only recently, explained my position and they even said as i can get all 3 gears and reverse, it is more likely to be a fault with the engine!!!!! I may well ring again and report all the tests done since etc and still have the fault. Its all very frustrating.
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1975 TRIUMPH 2500S AUTO ESTATE IN BRG!

DON'T TIDY UP - LEAVE IT WHERE IT FELL!!

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Re: Genuine help from you experts needed!!

#77 Post by johnnydog » Sun Feb 25, 2024 8:15 pm

Hi Nige, that is sounding a bit more positive! Ideally, you possibly should try to find an 'old school' auto transmission place that have experience of BW's. There is one in Preston that looked at a 2500S auto box owned by a Register member from Stoke on Trent, and he was very pleased with the result, although I accept it isn't 'local' for you!!
The early auto Mk1's had RNDL (low), but the facelift Mk1 models had RND21. Maybe a later workshop manual may stipulate whether the auto gearbox tests be carried out in 2nd or 1st with later Mk1s and Mk2 models?
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1967 Mk1 2000 in Gunmetal Grey
1969 Mk1 2000 in Royal Blue
1970 Mk2 2000 in Valencia Blue
1972 Mk2 2.5 PI in Triumph White
1973 Mk2 2.5 PI in Sienna Brown
1976 Mk2 2500S in Carmine Red

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Re: Genuine help from you experts needed!!

#78 Post by Forkie » Sun Feb 25, 2024 8:30 pm

This is half of my issue living 'all the way down at the bottom' of the country, experts and establishments have been gradually vanishing.....so everything seems so far away :cry: . So this outfit have actually been around since 1975, and they had 2 branches, one only 10 miles from me, the other 60 miles away. The nearer one has now closed, retaining just the one farther away. The now defunct closer one had the rear diff some years ago for a check over and gave a clean bill of health. They do have one guy that specialises in the 'older ' autos, BW etc and he is the guy that i spoke to a few months ago. They were happy to have the whole car and do the the whole job from start to finish if required. As i seem to of hit the brick wall with it i think i will give it another few months, let this continous appalling weather clear through and ring them up and have it booked in.
Member Number 7392 04/07

1975 TRIUMPH 2500S AUTO ESTATE IN BRG!

DON'T TIDY UP - LEAVE IT WHERE IT FELL!!

Forkie
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Re: Genuine help from you experts needed!!

#79 Post by Forkie » Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:11 pm

So just a quick update on this, the car is booked in for early May to the guys i mentioned. Whole car goes up, they remove 'box, refurbish the entire unit and refit. The extras that we have agreed for them to fit is rear crank seal, and as i know i have a damaged ring gear i am supplying a CW billet steel forged flywheel. I thought owning classics were meant to be cheaper than a modern !!!! But, when you fall in love with a car......
One point i would like to make - as i had already rung them, when i rang them back some weeks later to say - basically we still cannot find very little wrong with the engine, so it must be the 'box, the chap was still reluctant to admit the ' box is at fault🤷 But from my point of view, we are not finding issues with the engine, but we do not know about the ' box. Get the ' box done, then that can be discounted!!!!!
Member Number 7392 04/07

1975 TRIUMPH 2500S AUTO ESTATE IN BRG!

DON'T TIDY UP - LEAVE IT WHERE IT FELL!!

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