Triumph 6 cylinder engine death rattle - please explain

[Forkie]

Or, is that oil light staying on longer than needed....due to being faulty....im sure i have more than one issue here....

[Roscoe]

Change the oil switch it’s cheap enough anyway. But as regards the rattle I can’t imagine that it’s the timing chain as it would rattle all the time on a lot of newer cars the timing chain is tensioned via a plunger and plastic tensioner which is activated via oil pressure which the triumphs do not have.

Are you sure it’s a rattle and not a knock usually the big ends will knock if worn untill oil arrives to the bearings from the pump, if the noise disappears when the oil light goes out then my bet is on the big ends, but as I have said it’s usually a knock and not a rattle, I would be inclined to check the rocker shaft as well as this may not be getting sufficient oil. Could be during the long lay up that the oil ways might be blocked to the top end try a flushing oil, not sure if they are suitable for the triumphs though.

[johnnydog]

The write up for the Penrite 20w/60 classic light oil reads very well, and claims to give an increased 5psi over 20w/50 oil. It also has a high zinc content which is good for our Triumph engines. But it's very expensive.
In another recent topic, suitable engine oils were discussed. I have used Millers Classic 20w/50 mineral oil for years. That too is an excellent quality oil, with a good API spec, and a high zinc content. It is manufacturered by Millers Oils in West Yorkshire.
I have also used Smith and Allen oils, which are very good. They are a long established oil manufacturer in the North East supplying classic car oils at a reasonable cost.
I can't really see why a 20w/60 oil would improve the suspected knocking of the big ends on cold start up. Isn't the 20w figure relative to the viscosity when cold, and therefore the figure you are possibly looking to change relative to your problem, and the the higher figure relative to the viscosity when the oil is thinner when hot?
Maybe totally on the wrong tact here, but I know of a main dealer garage that rebuilt the engine of a modern German car (make omitted to save embarrassment!), but then stripped it again due what they thought was a crank noise. The knocking noise was definately coming from the sump /crankshaft area, but the problem turned out to be a so called 'schoolboy error', in that the sump had been mistakenly overfilled with oil after the rebuild, and the perceived knocking was the crankshaft slapping the high oil level in the overfilled sump every revolution. Needless to say, his bonus went out of the window and the second strip down /rebuild was not added to his work hours for that job!
I'm assuming that your oil level IS correct (this knocking noise I was relating was continuous and varied with engine speed) - although surely only a main dealer could make such a glaring and obvious error - surely?!?
As the so called 'death rattle' is a common issue with perhaps less than properly maintained Triumph 6 cylinder engines or just with age/ mileage, I think whatever you do is prolonging the inevitable - a bottom end rebuild, which isn't as expensive as you may think.....

[Forkie]

So i have just checked oil level, and it as bang on the mark and crystal clear ( obviously checked at stone cold and un-used) I think the main thing currently is for me to determine what is a knock, and what is a rattle!!!! I had a timing chain 'go slack' on me years ago on an Opel - and that was sudden, at a set of traffic lights, but i decided to drive home another 20 odd miles anyhow and yes it sounded the same all the way home - a loud rattle. ( i was 17 at the time, knew nothing) . Mechanic at the time couldn't believe it survived the journey....
I used to watch banger racing, and have heard many an engine in their final throes of ends thumping and banging.... all i can say is mine does not sound that bad !!!!!
Anyhow my daily ( as it happens Johnnydog, is German) is off for a service next week. I will show him the videos i have filmed, and see what he thinks. I also need to ask him if he had heard this noise whilst he had it over the Christmas period.....

[Forkie]

As an aside, the cost is not really an issue, i know it certainly wont cost anywhere near what it cost me over the Christmas period to get it back on the road !!!! For me it is more the ' how am i going to tackle that' - autobox down, engine up.... i dont have the luxury of a large American style garage with 20 feet of free space on four sides, 2 or 4 poster ramps etc.... and i was intending to get to the National for the first time this year, as it is 'on my doorstep' so to speak. All very, very frustrating. Thats old cars i suppose !

[johnnydog]

If you have a helper, would it be worth using the stethoscope method (a long screwdriver to your ear!) at various points around the engine / head to actually establish where the noise is coming from? Once you can pinpoint it to a particular area on the engine, you can investigate further, but as it is you seem to be going round in circles!
Most long term Triumph owners have experienced the 'Triumph rumble' on a cold start up at some point - are there any members near to you that may be able at least listen to the noise and then give you a definitive answer whether it is big ends, as it's quite a distinct noise, or something else?

[Forkie]

As an aside, the cost is not really an issue, i know it certainly wont cost anywhere near what it cost me over the Christmas period to get it back on the road !!!! For me it is more the ' how am i going to tackle that' - autobox down, engine up.... i dont have the luxury of a large American style garage with 20 feet of free space on four sides, 2 or 4 poster ramps etc.... and i was intending to get to the National for the first time this year, as it is 'on my doorstep' so to speak. All very, very frustrating. Thats old cars i suppose !

[Forkie]

Why has that message come up again !!!???
No, not really, im down here at Gods end in Cornwall, that would of been the thing to have another Triumph owner to have a listen . .Im not sure there is another one down here - in the Register anyhow. The only other way of course is for me to forward the video from my phone on to someone else....
I get your ' sounding out ' idea - but then that would mean several more start ups as per normal - i assume that would keep damaging the ' already damaged' !?!?. I intend , for the immediate future, just to keep it moving once in a while to go back to the long winded way before starting.
And yes, i do feel very much going around in circles.

[iani]

Do you have a viscous fan fitted? a failing coupling sounds not dissimilar to big end trouble, it wouldn't explain the oil pressure issue but it could be your noise.

[Forkie]

Hi Ian - no i am pretty sure just standard fan set up, as is the norm with this car !! Will double check on Sunday, meant to be our best weather day down here of the 3 days so planning to have a tinker then. Seeing my guy on Tuesday so going to have a chat with him then. He is no Triumph expert but a top tech guy mechanically which is why he is always busy and not had time to get mine back in yet
Incidently - if it does wind up being the big ends , is there a particular cylinder number that goes first - as in depending on where i go from here, i may well drop the sump and remove a shell for inspection - if it comes to that i would rather remove one that would definately show wear, as oppose keep dropping one after another until i find one !!!!