Clutch Judder

[herald1360]

Hi all
I fitted a new laycock cluctch kit about 10 months ago it has now done around 1000 miles.
I had the flywheel refaced at the sametime. All was spotlessly clean when assembed.
It has now has judder.posting.php?mode=post&f=8#
Anyone got any solutions?
thank you

Paul

[tony]

Are you sure it's the clutch? Might pay to check engine/gearbox mounts and drive shaft/ axle u/j's.
Tony.

[David Withers]

Paul, it's a shame you still have clutch problems after all the work and expense you went to last year.

The clutch on the 2.5 is borderline at the best of times, so I suppose anything that's not totally right could cause trouble. I'm aware that the flywheel on your car has been lightened slightly and I can't see that in itself causing the problem, but I wonder if the surface finish left by the machinist is contributing. On the other hand, I think a freshly-machined surface ought to have reduced the possibility of judder; in comparison with a glazed surface anyway.

Judder can be caused by some of the pressure plate springs having uneven strength, especially in a diaphragm-type plate, as that stops the friction clutch engaging evenly with the flywheel. But since you've fitted two different clutches - Borg & Beck and now Laycock - that seems unlikely as the cause. However it would be worth checking (as best you can) if you do have to drop the gearbox again.

The clutches on the 2.5 could be problematical even when the cars were new. I applied for a position in a Triumph main dealership in the 1970s and, at the interview, was told by the general manager that a a lot of warrantee claims for clutches on the 2.5 were coming in, and Triumph had advised that any potential customer for a manual 2.5 should be encouraged to buy automatic instead. With the 2.5 engine having a much stronger torque at low engine speed than the 2000 engine, I imagine that Triumph would have fitted a larger clutch from the start if there'd been room.

[TedTaylor]

Where/when does the juddering actually happen? For example after things have warmed up a bit, after the clutch has been used a few times, at the end of travel so that it is no longer a nice progressive movement?

MUT

[herald1360]

Hi all
The judder is just when you take up drive it not terrible, but not what I want!!
I may try changing the engine mounts (originals) and checking the gearbox rear mount (CW replacement).
The clutch works perfectly in all other ways, so I will put up with it unless it gets really bad.
I am sure it is not related to the clutch components as the other clutches I fitted were the same after a while.
Thanks you all for your help
Paul

[Davemate]

On the Club triumph forum, it may be an answer.
Mine is post 1, this weekend I'll be trying to get some grease in there !


Post 1
Same here, mk1 saloon all standard.
New seals in master and as far as I could tell slave was ok.
I have however now got a slight leak from the slave so that will be changed on Sunday.

Engine cold or not runing = nice smooth action on the pedal.
Engine hot = juddery pedal,only the last inch or so of travel,when depressed.

Once the slave has been changed that should rule out hydraulics.
I can drive for the first 10 min,it doesn't matter wether I do one gear change or loads,after 10 min the pedal goes juddery at the bottom.




Post 2
I think it is the release bearing carrier sticking on the sleeve. Did you grease it (right kind of grease and sparingly) on reassembly? This is something quite alot of them do. The TR boys suffer from it as well and seem to recommend the brass carriers as a cure. Not sure whether anyone does a brass carrier that is correct for the saloon though.

You may want to live with it for a while and see if it resolves with use as taking the box out on these is never an attractive prospect!


Post 3
On my Vitesse,(2.5 engine and saloon box with j type o/d)the clutch was very notchy with the steel bearing carrier.Sort of on or off with nothing in between.

I found a spare brass one in my garage and its been as smooth as it should be ever since.

[Alec]

Hello all,

there was a post on another forum I visit that recommended taking care to not let the gearbox weight rest on the centre plate as the gearbox is being replaced as doing so can cause clutch judder. I hadn't heard that before but while not good practice can happen if not using a gearbox jack while doing the job?

I hadn't heard of brass carriers and don't know of their scarcity; it would not be a big job to bore a steel carrier and fit a brass sleeve if that is felt to be an improvement?

Alec

[Clifford Pope]

Replacing a clutch a few years ago I had problems with the carrier sleeve. It turned out it was too long, apparently from a different model, and at the extremity of the bearing travel it tended to bind and interfere with clutch operation.
It was neccessary to cut it down slightly - I've no idea how much.

[torque2me]

The clutch on the 2.5 is borderline at the best of times, so I suppose anything that's not totally right could cause trouble.

Judder can be caused by some of the pressure plate springs having uneven strength, especially in a diaphragm-type plate, as that stops the friction clutch engaging evenly with the flywheel. But since you've fitted two different clutches - Borg & Beck and now Laycock - that seems unlikely as the cause. However it would be worth checking (as best you can) if you do have to drop the gearbox again.

The clutches on the 2.5 could be problematical even when the cars were new. I applied for a position in a Triumph main dealership in the 1970s and, at the interview, was told by the general manager that a a lot of warrantee claims for clutches on the 2.5 were coming in, and Triumph had advised that any potential customer for a manual 2.5 should be encouraged to buy automatic instead. With the 2.5 engine having a much stronger torque at low engine speed than the 2000 engine, I imagine that Triumph would have fitted a larger clutch from the start if there'd been room.

Edited

Don't tell any of my cars that they should be having clutch troubles. I've only had one problem and that was caused by a broken locating pin. Later aftermarket (not original OEM) seems more likely as even LUK produced one with only three springs and found that they twisted and broke up. At the time of production my neighbour (pukka Triumph mechanic at a Triumph dealer) never mentioned this as an undue problem.


Kev

[herald1360]

Hi all
New engine mounts now fitted. Clutch judder now only very slight.
Also engine is now much smoother running, so old mounts must have been very worn.
Hope the new mounts last, as they were cheap ones from Canleys only £7.50 each!!