Club Tooling Fund

[mikew]

I am starting this discussion, because of the difficulty that Alan is having in sourcing a part for DEL33, I have posted this on the CT Forum too (apologies, but its where I had the idea)

We need to start looking long term with all these cars. How about a "tooling fund" like the SOC and TR owners have, get the 2000 club (with the benefit!?) of increased subs start to save money to recreate those unobtainable parts. I know its a small club, BUT more and more items will become unobtainium, and cars will then not be used.

I don't usually double post but I have floated this on the CT forum too, if there's some support then presumably the idea could then progress to an article in the club magazine, and all members be canvassed for their opinion. I know money is tight right now for people but you need to start somewhere.

I'd happily chip in and make a donation to start, the amounts would need to be a reasonable affordable sum, and nominations for essential parts need to be made, like certain repair panels. - I know that Earlparts intend to build a press shop, but he is having trouble with bank funding in these times. Maybe the fund could assist in return for a certain number of parts or panels in return at discount cost until the club's investment is returned.

Ted is doing a cracking job with the windscreens, but there are other items needed too

mike

[badger]

I couldn't agree more .You have my support, and would be willing to make a donation. I don't know how many members there are in the register, but if 1000 people donated £10, that would be a good start?
As Mike said, some parts are becoming quite hard to find, eg, front wings, if Earlparts are looking to assemble a press shop, then he should get our full support. Stags and TR's command good values and have excellent spares back up, whilst our cars struggle to reach a quarter the value of a good Stag or TR, and some body panels are almost impossible to source. I wonder how many 2000/2500 have been scrapped, due to the price of restoring/repairing it.The cost of 2 front wings alone are in excess of £800, whilst a Stag wing will set you back just £150!!

[Alan Chatterton]

In principle, it does seem like a good idea, and I would love to get involved with this.

However, not wanting to put a damper on it, a few words of caution.

Firstly, I raised this several times in previous years with our board of directors and the simple short answer is, they do not want the club getting involved with parts supply, instead we should support those private individuals who do, ie Earlparts, CW etc.

Secondly, do not underestimate how expensive this will be, and unless everyone, and I mean everyone, is prepared to stump up several hundred pounds each, it just won't happen. This is very expensive.

The tooling for have new tailgate seals made is about £5000. Let say we think we can sell 50 of them (and that's optimistic!) then we need to charge at least £150 each just to make sure we break even.

STOCTL (Stag owner club tooling fund) had a pot of, well, loads. They have just finished doing the new stag heads and I know the development of those cost about £25k.

Wings, well, Neil owns the pressings, he has to charge so much to get back the tooling costs......... about £10k at a guess. Allowing £200 cost per press, he may make £200 on each wing........ you have to sell alot to get your £10k back and then pay tax before you can even think about profit!

Don't get me wrong, I love this idea, but I'm not so sure we could count on club support to do this................... or not. Don't know.

However, I would guess there is probably only about 50 or 60 of us, tops, who would be prepared to come in and put up some serious cash. This being the case, we all need to think about putting in £500 minimum to get a £25k fighting pot....... then, where do we start? MKII wings, what about MKI owners, estate seals, saloon's won't want them, new bumpers, panels etc etc..... minefield.

But, this being the case, I do agree with Mike, we should do something.

Can we start with estate tailgate seals, then move onto original spec door seals!!!!

I have a company near me who can do rubber moundings, so getting help and prices is ok.......... I just need an original seal to start the ball rolling!!!! joking apart, original door seals (same on MKI and MKII) might be a good place to start after Ted's windscreens.

[mikew]

Alan,

As a recent club member I am not aware of previous discussions. However, how many postings are we seeing about wing repair panels?

If we cannot get the cars repaired at reasonable cost, with reasonably available critical parts i.e panels, not the odd unavailable trim items, then more and more will go banger racing.

You can bodge the odd bit of trim, but sills and wing repair panels do become unbodgeable. I don't mean this unkindly over the seal I know how important it is to you Alan, but it won't keep DEL33 off the road.

Now I know that the club hasn't got, and will probably never have £25k to remake heads, and fortunately the old cast iron doesn't have the issues that the Stag alloy heads have, but wing repair panels are needed. Earlparts have the press and the tools, but not, it would appear the funding to erect the Press Shop. I am not sure what that would cost, but a basic shed isn't £25k.

If the Press was functional Earlparts can make panels for MK1s and MK2s, helping ALL members.

You and I discussed what you would be prepared to pay for a seal. I'd donate several times that if I thought the club members would also contribute a reasonable sum to enable (with the appropriate guarantess / conditions etc) Earlparts to be able to make the pressings that so many people need. I'd expect some return eventually.

Times have changed, more cars will be scrapped soon as even the repair panels have dried up, perhaps its time for this discussion to be reopened.

If the tooling isn't sorted out at some time all bar a few pampered cars WILL rust away.

I know Earlparts would do the pressings if they could errect the press shed, the question is, do the club members want to invest in the future of their own cars?

This is important for the future of the cars, I have seen this subject has had a number of views, but very few replies, come one people what do you think? If you don't agree say, if you do let everyone know.





mike

[Alan Chatterton]

Quite right Mike........ we're not talking about boot seals here.

Wings, arch sections, half wings do seem to be the issue here.

Sills, door skins, rear arches are all ok.

I need to go and see Neil soon, I'll make some discrete enquirers about the possibility of some "private" funding help to get the press shed finished and take it from there.

In the meantime, we need to see how many people would be prepared to put their money up, and not just us, but CT too.

[CAR]

Quite right Mike........ we're not talking about boot seals here.

Wings, arch sections, half wings do seem to be the issue here.

Sills, door skins, rear arches are all ok.

I need to go and see Neil soon, I'll make some discrete enquirers about the possibility of some "private" funding help to get the press shed finished and take it from there.

In the meantime, we need to see how many people would be prepared to put their money up, and not just us, but CT too.

Rimmers have had these repair panels on back order for some time, I assume they would be purchasing these from Earlparts. CW and all the other usual parts suppliers must be waiting with baited breath for Earlparts to start up production.
Demand for the repair panels and wings if available, would appear to be there so why are they unable to get the funding for the press shed and what sort of money do they need to realise?
As Alan says, discreet enquiries would be a good start.
Another thing to consider is the way seemingly unrepairable cars are being banger raced or broken for spares, partly as a result of unobtainable panels. This is likely to keep the value of our cars artificially low as they are not easily restored with off the shelf panels and repair sections.
We have two cars that would benefit from, the repair sections/half wings in the next few years and agree entirely with the idea of 'making our own luck' and investigating the possibility of helping to fund the future of 'our' cars.
So you can include us as 'interested'

C&A

[James]

Not wanting to be a disruptor— if a load of club members want something doing then it should be done? Club management are there to serve the members?

The cars are the main part of this club? They keep the members glued together? If they start disappearing due to being unreasonable to keep in decent condition then there's no club?

[Alan Chatterton]

Good point James.

But, the "club", ie the management of the club, have to consider what is best for the club and the members as a whole.

If 750 people turn round and say "we want it", then we would do it.

But, if only 50 people want it, then we probably can't............

also, bear in mind, if the club as a company gets involved with funding and production, then we enter a minefield of FSA/HSA/HMRC rules and regs which may make it impossible to do. Same reason why we can't do direct debit for membership, FSA regs require us to put £50k up as equity....... can't be done.

But, a "co-operative" of people, who just happen to be Register/CT members acting together to help fund some production, that's a different kettle of banana's mate!

[James]

Fair points Alan.

What I always find interesting with all this (having been on the CT committee once upon a time and done a fair amount of organising) is that there are so many silent members that the club has to serve but take no real active interest in the club.

Look at CT- how many actually get involved and how many seem to be signed up for nothing?

What I am getting at is, that I wish it were a democracy of the people who _are_ involved and contribute to the club, the most passionate.

I just sometimes feel that the active members should take control, they are more likely to know what is best.

I am trying to think of an analogy whereby the passive masses support those more active.

During my involvement with CT I remember a few times when things don't get done because there is no call for it by the masses, yet the masses don't actually ask for anything- so why should they care? (my bone of contention is the secretaries notes, a costly and wasteful exercise- a huge huge saving could be made by getting rid of it- all to support those without internet- if they want that information then they can get it if they really want to- the only exciting stuff in it are updates on stuff that we know people have internet access to anyway!)

Anyway, I am rambling. Whatever the club can do to best promote the continued existence of the cars is what needs to be done. I just think it's short sighted to not do something because only a few are apparently in need, when logically there will be far more than those who are currently waving their hands in the air.

[Alan Chatterton]

Well, this post has been on all evening. so far, only 4 of us have said yes.

This needs to be 30 or 40 before we can do anything.

So?