Removing water marks in cellulose paint

[johnnydog]

This may have been discussed before, but....
The cellulose paint on my Valencia Mk2 2000 seems to be affected by water marks on the paint. It occurs generally after a light rain shower on a bright sunny day where the light rain 'beads' on the paint surface, and if the rain droplets aren't wiped off almost immediately, each water bead leaves a white spot directly underneath them. It also occurs when it gets water splatters from a garden hose or sprinkler - not just rain water.
These water marks are murder to get rid of - a light compounding doesn't really have much effect. Over time they fade, but this can be literally weeks.
I have tried allsorts of different fine cutting compounds followed by different polishes, various makes of wax, but nothing seems to remove them or prevent it.
It is mainly only on the horizontal panels, such as the front panel, bonnet, boot, tops of the ftont andcrear wings, roof, door tops by the glass rubbers, and the rear valence directly below the rear lights and number plate.
Polishing / waxing the vehicle results in beading of water on these flat surfaces, which then, I presume, causes the warmth to heat up the beads and mark the paint under the beads. I believe that a paint protection that results in 'sheeting' rather than 'beading' may be beneficial so that there are no areas of water build up as in 'beading'?
We live in a soft water area, and the paint on the car is largely original.
I have this, but a lesser degree, on my Gunmetal Mk1, and on my Mk2 Sienna PI, both of which are finished in their original cellulose.
Has anyone used any product to protect their cellulose paint that has eliminated the white spots or prevented it from happening after a light rain shower?
I understand that ceramic glass coatings are the 'bees knees' on modern cars, but the paint has to be near perfect prior to its application, but is it likely to prevent these white spots? Once applied it is difficult to remove, but I believe water sheets off it better than wax. But is it suitable for use on cellulise paint?
I really want to find a solution to this problem as it spoils a good looking original car somewhat until they fade, and I am struggling to know the best way to tackle / prevent them from happening.
There are suggestions on t'interweb about using diluted white vinegar and de-ionised water, but this doesn't even touch them.
If anyone has any useful remedies to remove them and prevent them from coming back after light rain / sunshine, I would be more than grateful....
I am truely flummoxed......

[wild bill]

John ,This is a problem I have with my car.It seems to happen more with certain paint pigments, especially red.You must have noticed my manic activity to dry my car immediately any rain stops, as it seems to be the only way I can reduce the effect of raindrops. It seems that Cellulose paints only are affected by the problem, and I am at a loss to control it.The paint on my car is sparse enough without me having to use a cutting wax on it.If your car paint is good, and gives complete cover to the car, i.e., no wear through, chips etc the only thing I could suggest is to have the car completely flatted, to remove the imperfections, and then lacquer coated with a suitable non reactive lacquer. That would then seal the cellulose product in, and leave a hard non staining surface. I can't do this with my car for two reasons, the paint is badly worn, and it would then not be original. From the day I viewed my Triumph, two of my friends, who I would consider to be the very, very best auto painters I have had the pleasure to know said, about the worn paint....." We could blow that in , and it would never be seen" I had no doubt that they would be able to do this, but then my car would not be original any more. It really vexes me to see the paint like that,as it is totally against my nature to have imperfections on it, but I must stand firm on this one.
I really feel for you on this one, if you do find another solution, please let me know, but the lacquer step seems to be the only chance known. It's a big chance to take..Maybe now you will realise why I'm so paranoid about the rain!!!
Sorry if I have ranted on here about it, it is an issue that has really touches a nerve here.
Please keep in touch with your findings,I do wish you luck.
Kindest Regards,
Bill.

[johnnydog]

Many thanks for your comments about this Bill - I'm sorry to hear your beautiful and original Mk1 is also affected with this problem.
At the National in Norfolk this year, I knew it was going to rain overnight on the Friday into Saturday, and it was generally going to be a sunny day. I got up at 5am (!!) prior to the sun getting up properly to dry the rain water beading off the car. I then went back to bed as if nothing had happened! When I got up a couple of hours later, the sun was shining on the car, and being dry there was absolutely no problem.
Unfortunately, later in the afternoon, there was a rain shower and of course it beaded up on the waxed paint. I wasn't in a position to dry the car, and literally within minutes, I could see the dreaded white spots appearing, which are the ones still showing in the above photographs.
It really does spoil the appearance of the car, although they do fade in time, but you can't always dry it off after every rain shower on a sunny day, and if you could it would be a race against time to dry every bead before the reaction occurs.
If your knowledgeable paint men suggested a clear coat of lacquer may do the trick Bill, then maybe a ceramic glass coating may actually be a viable alternative without the major component stripping that would be involved in a sprayed clear coat? Although ceramic coatings are not easy to remove, it can be removed if need be whereas a sprayed clear coat is permanent?
I have some of the preparatory cleaner and quality ceramic glass coat liquid that I acquired from a local prestige car dealership. Unfortunately, they didn't seem to have even heard of cellulose (!!) or whether it would be suitable, but the manufacturers may have the answer but whether they would actually know, and its supposedly is for trade customers only. I may try a very inconspicuous area, but unfortunately an inconspicuous area isn't the first part of the bodywork to be affected by any rain and this annoying reaction.
I need to find more info on these ceramic glass coatings before anything else.....
Many years ago, MER Polish was often wrongly blamed for these white spots, but it appears that other waxes / polishes don't prevent them from happening.
If anyone has used any specific wax or even a less durable polish, or one that causes water to 'sheet off' the paint surface rather than 'bead', and has actually erradicated this problem, then I'm all ears....! !
Thanks again Bill for your reply though.

[johnfrancis898]

I have the same problem! I have British Racing Green and my car has been repainted using 2 pack. Same as you Johnnydog it takes ages to get them out and I’ve tried everything. Like Bill I tend to try and dry it off as quick as I can on the very rare occasion it’s out of the garage and we get a shower. I also get water marks on the rear bumper at each end of the rear section where it drips from the boot channel which are also a €${<¥§@#£ to get off. They clean off easier than the paint using Autosolvol.

[johnnydog]

The strange thing is how it seems to affect only certain colours. My 1969 Royal Blue Mk1 isn't affected and that has largely its original factory paint apart from two doors, which were repainted prior to 1984 when I bought it, and both these doors are not affected either. My 1976 Carmine 2500S is also not affected with these problematic rain spots, and that too is the original factory paint.
On my Valencia Mk2 2000, it also seems to affect the bulkhead panel either side of the intake grill which are hidden from direct sunlight, but rain water obviously runs off the windscreen and between the upper edge of the bonnet onto this panel.
I am really struggling to know what the answer is, so if anyone has experienced this and has a remedy that has clearly worked, I think there will be some extremely grateful owners out there...!!

[Forkie]

I have only just noticed this thread. Can i start by asking i assume everybody washes their car at home, by hand, themselves? And what ' car shampoo ' product do you all use?
And John, has this always happened, when it rains, since you have owned the car? Or has it only been 'fairly' recently - given the number of years you have owned your cars....

[johnnydog]

I don't usually use a car shampoo on my Triumphs - just water. A good rinsing initially, let the dirt soften, then another good rinsing, followed by a wash by hand with a mitt with clean water, followed by a drying off with a leather (some may frown about this!) or a microfiber towel.
I bought my Valencia 2000 in 2012 - I've been trying for the life of me to remember what wax I used for the few years after I got it before this started happening. It went to the Dorset, second Scotland, and the first Northumberland Nationals, and numerous car shows including the NEC in between, and I have never noticied this problem before (and I'm certain it got wet at some point!). Years ago, I used Simoniz Hard Wax in the yellow tin (for Cars Furniture and Floors!) - a brilliant long lasting shine, although hard work, and never had this problem, although I can't remember using it on my Valencia 2000. More recently, since this started, I've tried various waxes (not Autoglym, as this, as the name implies, is a polish with silicones in it, not a wax), although the problem has only really started over the last 6 years or so, but the car has been laid up for a few of those years - the National this year in Dorset being it's first major outing. It only appears to happen when water (either rain or from a hose) lands on warm paintwork, or having rained relatively lightly on the car, the sun comes out and warms the water beads leaving a 'bleached' or 'faded' mark under each water bead. That's why I am thinking about whether there's a product that is suitable for cellulose paint that doesn't cause water to 'bead' but to 'sheet' off the paintwork......Grrrrrrr!

[Forkie]

So, as i read your post a couple of times, you have never used ANY car shampoos at all, just water?

[johnfrancis898]

I have always used car shampoo mainly Turtlewax but these days I generally just use the Halfords own make. Followed by a real leather dry off. With regard to wax as Johnnydog said it is mainly silicon based these days. Years ago I knew a body repair guy and for a final finish he used to use Mr Sheen furniture polish! He worked on everything from Minis to Rolls Royces.

[Forkie]

I have used Turtle wax myself, if i can get it- and never wash in sunny weather, or hot weather even, even if not sunny.... i assume you guys are aware of TFR - which is now in many , if not most shampoos?