Engine out question...

Engine Oily Bits, Ignition, Fuelling, Cooling, Exhaust, etc.
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Sal
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Engine out question...

#1 Post by Sal » Sat May 08, 2021 5:41 pm

Hello there

Have you got to drop the cross member to take the engine out so the sump passes? And if so can you leave the struts in place or have they got to come out too?

Cheers
Sal

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Re: Engine out question...

#2 Post by johnnydog » Sun May 09, 2021 12:58 am

If you're using an engine crane or block and tackle to lift the engine upwards, it will come out complete with the gearbox in one unit, but you need height to do this and a helper to support the rear of the gearbox to clear the bodywork. The engine sump will come out past the cross member without removing it, but it is tight and you run the risk of damaging the pipes on the PAS rack if you are not careful. Without care, you also can damage anything on the bulkhead lifting it in one unit. Lifting the engine upwards is made a lot easier if the gearbox is removed first. It will also go back in from the top, but the sump needs a little guidance past the cross member with something as simple as a flat shovel acting like a shoe horn.
If dropping it, you need to be able to have the car at a sufficient height so the engine can be moved away from the car once the engine (and gearbox if still attached) is lowered to the ground. To do this you have to remove the cross members, steering rack and anything basically that is in the way of the engine on its downwards path. The struts can be left in situ but are easy to remove anyway with the other suspension and steering components that need to come off if going downwards.
Everyone has there own preferred method - I personally prefer to remove the gearbox from the engine underneath, then lower the car and then lift the engine upwards, so all the suspension and steering is left in situ, but this needs the bonnet removing which you can get away with if dropping it all downwards.
It may be decided for you anyway relative to what equipment you have to do the job and which way is easier with it and for you.
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Mike Stevens
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Re: Engine out question...

#3 Post by Mike Stevens » Sun May 09, 2021 9:13 am

For information, my preferred way is to remove the front suspension and drop the whole lot downwards, either engine and gearbox together or just the engine. The latter means you have to grovel underneath to disconnect the gearbox and I find it easier to re-attach them when out of the car but it is a personal thing. However, the engine when sitting on the floor on its sump is very tall and the car body will have to be raised a lot to clear it. You can remove the head before dropping the engine as that does reduce the height a bit.

Another point is that with the car raised and on stands, you have to drag the engine out from underneath. With the engine lifted (with or without gearbox attached) you can then push the car back out of the way.

As Johnnydog said, it will really depend on what lifting equipment you have!

Good luck!

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Re: Engine out question...

#4 Post by Sal » Sun May 09, 2021 10:48 am

Thanks folks, I have a Draper hydraulic (pump action) engine crane so I think I’ll remove the box and take the engine out through the top and leave the cross member in place

Thanks
Sal

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Re: Engine out question...

#5 Post by Alec » Sun May 09, 2021 11:28 am

Hello Sal,

My preferred method is to drop the engine gearbox combined, and it still is awkward as the front suspension is unwieldy to refit, but that is because I work alone, with a helper it is much easier.

What I find hard is mating the gearbox to the engine when it is in position in the car using the out of the top method. Mine is an overdrive gearbox and is heavy.
Again a helper is invaluable in that instance. On the bench or the ground it is much easier to join the engine to the gearbox.

All in all it is hard work whichever method is used, good luck.

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Re: Engine out question...

#6 Post by Charles H » Sun May 09, 2021 3:18 pm

I drop the engine and box out of the bottom. The struts do not need to be removed. I just undo the bolts holding the control arms to the cross member. The steering rack I just undo the locating U bolts (manual rack) or retaining bolts (PAS) and leave the rack just hanging. Getting the gearbox out from underneath and then lifting the engine upwards I find a real pain! Trick for the lowering system is to loosen everything and then drop the entire front of the car to the ground. Unbolt the engine supports leaving it on the floor, then jack the body up. Using BIG load spreading planks under the sills allows the shell to be raised fairly easily. Which ever way you do it, good luck.
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Re: Engine out question...

#7 Post by Sal » Sun May 09, 2021 8:36 pm

I’ve taken many engines out of cars over the years but never worked with such a heavy lump! It’s a monster!

Thanks for the advise chaps, I’ll let you know how I go.

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Re: Engine out question...

#8 Post by johnnydog » Sun May 09, 2021 11:53 pm

Alec wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 11:28 am
Hello Sal,

My preferred method is to drop the engine gearbox combined, and it still is awkward as the front suspension is unwieldy to refit, but that is because I work alone, with a helper it is much easier.

What I find hard is mating the gearbox to the engine when it is in position in the car using the out of the top method. Mine is an overdrive gearbox and is heavy.
Again a helper is invaluable in that instance. On the bench or the ground it is much easier to join the engine to the gearbox.

All in all it is hard work whichever method is used, good luck.

Alec
I have seen a member adapt a set of brake shoes with appropriate slots cut into them and bolted with additional strips of metal to effectively make a cradle for the gearbox to sit in a trolley jack. You can also buy trolley jack gearbox cradles.
With these, whether home made or bought for the job, as the natural position of the gearbox is lower at the rear when the rear cross member is removed, life is made a lot easier if the rear of the car is raised so that the gearbox is on a level plane. This makes moving the gearbox away from the engine on removal and mating it back up on refitting a lot easier as the height of the gearbox on the cradle on the trolley jack can be kept at the same level. If the car is on a level surface, then the jack has to be progressively lowered or raised during removal or refitting which makes it more awkward.
I fortunately have a pit and using a transmission jack with the car height raised at the rear, the gearbox slides in or out on the same level path with no need to alter its height as you move it.
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Re: Engine out question...

#9 Post by tadge44 » Mon May 10, 2021 3:04 pm

I adapted a trolley jack as a gearbox support by tapping 8mm threads into the saddle, bolting some 4x2 timber to it with some more at right angles forming a basic cradle.
I was able to remove a re-fit the gearbox on my own without a great deal of difficulty and I will be 77 in about 4 weeks.

I agree the engine is a very heavy unit and demands respect when lifting in and out.

I found it necessary to sling it at an angle to move it up and forwards then rest it on blocks on the cross member and re-sling it level before lifting it clear.

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Re: Engine out question...

#10 Post by Sal » Mon May 10, 2021 8:08 pm

Love hearing the garage inventions to get over common problems

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