Clutch judder

[Peter Douglas W]

I would have love to have read that article. Where did you find it? I thought I had read all of the Buckeyes things. I have not got down to checking all of my Triumph data perhaps in my archive or modified manunals. I may have noted something. At the moment I have problems running up and down to the celler I am going to have a heart OP next week. Routine stuff but very important.
By the way Enterprises did not put the clutch in they only advised and sold the parts. My german garage did the work. They are quite good but not perfect, a father and son business therefore the knowledge defacto is limited. They specialise on post war English cars particularly Triumphs.

[Clifford Pope]

I've had this problem or very similar, with two Triumphs in the past.
The first was with one I'd changed myself, produced almost undrivable kangeroo-ing when pulling away. I took it to a garage, complete with a new box of replacement kit, and they found that I had left out a tiny steel pin about 1/2" long, about the thickness of a matchstick. I can't remember what it was for, but clearly something to do with the withdrawal mechanism. It came with the new kit, but had either been omitted from the one I had fitted or I had lost it.

The second was on my later car. It drove perfectly when I got it, but gradually the clutch became jerkier and finally slipped completely and was undrivable. The answer was a missmatch between the sleave holding the withdrawal bearing and the bearing itself, causing it to bind and finally seize completely. The garage thought perhaps the sleave had come from a TR6 or something else using the same engine. He machined the sleave so that the bearing could slide properly, and also took about 1/4" off the end, which was limiting it movement. The radius of the bearing operating forks moving the bearing along the sleeve causes it to bind at full depression.

They also found that the taper pin was a poor fit in the cross shaft. He carefully fettled it so that it was properly tight, and wound the securing wire correctly.

[Peter Douglas W]

I have just been down to the celler and I have found the following from about 1990 Magazine Quote Dowelling bolts. :-Not fitting the 2 3/8" inch dowelling bolts to the gearbox and back plate is one of the most common bodges I have seen. These 2 bolts are a tighter fit than the others therefore align the gearbox to the engine. One bolt is just above the starter motor. The other just above the clutch slave cylinder. They should be fitted and tightened before all the other bolts. Failure to fit these can put a lot of unnecessary strain on the clutch plate and constant pinion mainshaft bearing due to misallignment.
How about that 35 years ago. This is saying how important these dowelling bolts are for allignment.
Cliff I think that was the pin DS082 to stop the release bearing from rotating. I have had the taper pin problem with every Triumph. In fact one garage drilled a hole through the crossshaft and put a nut and bolt in. I was furious but to my suprise it held for the life of the car.
In my case the release bearing etc is all new 2 times over.
The machining bit (with other mods) has been done for TR6 cars that have a clutch problem.

[Peter Douglas W]

I have just ha a talk to my parts supplier (English been selling parts for 50 years. has a lovely TR3B). He thinks that the engine mounts could still be the problem. The old ones were weak but complete and I chose to go for Chris Wittor Polys. In view of my friend's comment has anybody got anything to say.

[johnnydog]

I have no experience of polybushes, as I am fortunate to still have a good stock of genuine items for all the original rubber bushes / mounts etc.
There are however various types of the compound used in polybushes relative to the degree of NVH (noise vibration and harshness).
I assume CW engine mounts fill the required criteria relative to our cars for this, but personally I'd rather stick with genuine nos rubber type.
For the cost of a pair of engine mounts, it has to be worth changing them. It always makes sense to try the easiest and cheapest thing first whilst trying to rectify a problem!

[Peter Douglas W]

Just letting the thoughts go wild. At the top of the cover there are some studs and the are I think 2 dowels. If what the are saying about the Dowllingbolts is correct, should the studs be tightened first, should the dowellingbolts be tightened first?
Why did the spitfire have problems with he engine plate, which caused the bellhousing to be slightly off perpendicular. ?
How can the bellhousing move when all nuts and bolts are tightened down?

[johnnydog]

The top three fastenings for the bellhousing to engine back plate are studs. The easiest way to access those are when the gearbox mounting / cross member is removed which lowers the engine and box at the rear. Using a couple of extra long extentions (3/8th drive are ideal) they can be removed (slackened in your case) from underneath. An assistant is useful to guide the socket into position. The gearbox can be supported from underneath or it can rest against the bulkhead, but if so, I would put some firm foam padding between the rocker cover and the bulkhead to avoid any damage to the insulation and the brake pipes.
You can then go round the bolts to check if they are in their correct positions. Don't remove them all - just slacken them off very slightly which should give enough 'slack' so that the 3/8 ths bolts in their correct positions will align the box correctly, and then sequence tighten the rest round the bellhousing - tightening the studs at the top last.
I would argue that surely the only way the bellhousing can move on the engine backplate is if somehow the nuts / bolts have worked loose - it won't be much because the starter should theoretically be holding it firm and the studs at the top will keep it near to its correct orientation.
Unless your mechanic did not replace the spring washers, and the nuts have worked loose possibly with the engine vibration?

[Peter Douglas W]

So I must ask my garage to do the following. Start at the top and loosen the studs then the 3/8th bolts then the rest. Then go to the starer motor bolts and slave cylinder bolts 3/8 "th and tighten them first then the studs at the top then the rest.
I would not think that chris would sell Poly mounts that are not suitable for the car/engine. Interesting Rimmers have stopped selling the rubber G/B mounts only polys. 2 Months ago they were still selling the rubber ones. Mine are black colour. I do not know what that means.

[Peter Douglas W]

I am going off the air for a couple of weeks to get the human 4 cylider machine working again properly.

[johnnydog]

Hope all goes well Peter