The Triumph 2000 / 2500 / 2·5 Register Forum

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C882101

Jim B drew our attention to this elsewhere, and I thought it worth discussing in a new thread as - although it's good to see an increase in prices for the T2000 range - this one is certainly a giant step too far and I need to make the reasons known.

This was my car until I sold it earlier this month to a buyer who, I've since discovered, told me a pack of lies from start to finish. It turns out he is a professional classic car trader with a dubious reputation, rather than a "Triumph enthusiast wanting to move up from the family's Dolomite".

After an in-depth study of the Triumph 2000/2500 market, I'd decided on an asking price of £6400. The buyer agreed to pay this subject to the inclusion of my large stock of very good used and NOS parts. In effect this brought me about £6000 for the car, which I'm convinced was a fair valuation taking into account true condition of the car and the recent rises.

It's a good car, but most definitely not in the £10,000 league!

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"Never seen a drop of rain" he says! Anyone thinking of buying might be wise to read my article on its restoration in SIXappeal issue 104 of December 1998. There they will learn that it had been abandoned to the elements from 1986 to 1996, awaiting either scrapping or renovation. The bulkhead, doors, wings, boot-lid, bonnet, windscreen pillars and even the roof were corroded through.

Of course it's been out in the rain, and in snow and slush, etc, over its first two hundred thousand miles. It was only after the restoration that I tried to avoid using it when rain was forecast, so as to avoid new corrosion. I explained this to the buyer, and he assured me that the car would be looked after in exactly the same way, only coming out of his garage on fine days.

I also pointed out that when the fuel tank is more than 3/4-full a strong smell of petrol enters the car, and I'd been unable to cure this. There were a fair number of other deficiencies that I also made him fully aware of before the deal, including an apparently incurable driveline vibration which has always plagued the car, and he seemed surprisingly happy to accept them.

I'm pleased that I was completely honest, just sorry that the car has gone to a dishonest dealer.

I can sympathise with you David, but, to use a cliche
at the end of the day the new buyer can do whatever they wish. It is now their property.

Last year I sold my Dolomite for £100, well to be more precise I accepted £100 donation for Click Sargent (Scotland).
I only advertised it through the Dolomite Club forum and when nobody was prepared to pay the low asking price.
I offered it to TDC members only for said donation, making it clear it was TDC members only.

This was a solid car with a fresh MOT, sound original engine, uprated brakes, T9 gearbox conversion,
alloy wheels, uprated brakes and suspension and so on. It would be a good breaker.
The owner owner drove it 700(?) miles to Coventry managing over 40 mpg despite driving at 3500 rpm in fifth gear!

Once I had offered it for £100, I was inundated with PMs from non TDC members, none of which I replied to.
Somebody wanted me to drive it to Ullapool (300 mile round trip) so his non-TDC member friend could view it .

Alas there are many folk who will say anything to make a purchase, driven purely by the thought of a quick easy large profit.
It is good of you to highlight DOW 455K but I am thinking that most potential buyers won't even know of this website?

I'm not seeking sympathy for myself. I received the amount I was hoping for, in fact a bit more than I'd have been prepared to accept, and I'm still happy with it.

My sympathy is with the next buyer who no doubt will be kept in the dark as to the several faults, some of which are fairly major. Perhaps I made a mistake in deciding to keep quiet about the faults until the point where definite interest was shown so as not to frighten off interest in what is a better car overall than might be expected. If I'd made the faults public, for example in my advert, there's at least a small chance that the rogue trader's own potential buyer would have spotted them.

Before the trader arranged the viewing, I made it very clear that there were several areas needing attention. For example, the diff whines loudly when warm, which hadn't bothered me as I used the car for local trips only. Everything I mentioned received a response along the lines "No worries, I'll soon fix that". There's almost no doubt he won't tell his own buyer about the faults as he holds out his hand for several thousands of pounds more than the car's true value.

The trader insisted in paying cash-in-hand, and he ignored my request as to his surname until the deal was done ("just call me Jamie"), so alarm bells ought to have rung. In fact he is Jamie Cripps.

So, I'm a bit annoyed with myself with not spotting that I was being lied to at great length, but my real concern is that someone equally trusting will be conned out of lots of money by this very selfish and unsavoury character.

If he is the same person then he is one of the specialists recommended by members of the West Sussex MG Club, and an experienced repairer and restorer.

I can sympathise David, but looking at it in the round, I think you have to realise that events such as this are part of the mechanism that caused prices of classic cars to appreciate in line with the growing popular desire to own and invest in old cars. The movement may not always be a straight upward slope - there are blips and spikes - but basically market prices are set by the market.

I can remember when an average 2000 fetched £1000 and a very good one £2000. Then someone paid £3,000, amid gasps from club members. Then £3,000 became the new normal, until an apparently inflated £6,000 one appeared. Then £6000 became a reasonable price for a good one, which is where you quite reasonably positioned yours, but it seems the market is going up again.

It's life I'm afraid. But it's come about because of the scarcity created by all consumers in the past letting cars depreciate until scrapped, and only treasuring them once there are only a few left. And we all need escalating values in order to support a viable market for a comprehensive spares and remanufacturing industry.

Clifford I acknowledge your point about the rise in prices of our cars - and is part of the reason why what were cars not worth restoring are now getting the treatment.

However I don't think David is necessarily complaining about the hike in price itself but about the whole unsavoury way in which the buyer has behaved and future ramifications.

Ted

The manner in which David has been treated by this chap appears to be disrespectful. I cannot abide anyone who lies. It is not necessary.
However, as long as David is happy with the price he got, then unfortunately the ownership has now passed to someone else. If however the buyer was a dealer, then he should have filled in the yellow section of the V5C for David to send to the DVLA and retain the rest. If, as I suspect, he has bought it and retained just the new keeper section (green) then theoretically he has not completed the paperwork correctly and put it into his own name. In this case, David should then be sending the large section to the DVLA and the car will gain another keeper.
This aside, the fact that the car is now un for sale again at nearly £10K must reflect on the fantastic job that David has done to rebuild and keep the car in such a beautiful condition. A whining diff is easy to swap out, condition of the car is king. It also means that the value of our cars, both actual and perceived, increases. This can not be a bad thing.

While I fully understand your frustration and annoyance David, I would ask you to bear in mind that what you write here is in the public domain and can be read by anyone. Any defamatory comments that you make (understandable though they might be) could reflect on the register.

Please don't take this as any criticism. It is not intended to be in any way. I just wouldn't want to see the good name of the Register or the forum dragged into the mud!

Cheers,
Mike.

That's a very fair point, Mike. I have deleted the comments I made about the trader's personal 'attributes'.

Thanks David, it's much appreciated.

Cheers,
Mike.