Interior fabric

Bodywork, interior and exterior trim and glass, bumpers, etc.
Message
Author
User avatar
Alan Chatterton
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2945
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:18 pm
Location: Redditch, Worcestershire

Re: Interior fabric

#31 Post by Alan Chatterton » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:39 pm

The Stag owners club have about 5000 members, so of course they are big enough to have the SOCTF. (Tooling fund to help get parts remade).

We don't have the numbers, so we don't have the funds. Simple maths.

There is A spares club which is supported by us, for the members which is doing this very thing. Windscreens have been done, and I think we has a take up of under 40. that's about 5% of our membership.

I say again though, we need people to help us if you want to do more things, so thank you Kev for your kind offer of assistance, I'll get some paperwork in the post to you so you can join us and get some of these important jobs done.

Personally, I would like to us to do more, much more. But money and volunteers are just not forth coming.
If the membership want this, then why don't we have more people in the spares club?
I'm not being negative, but I can't see how to do this, if you can, come and help us achieve it.
Alan Chatterton

Location; Redditch

DEL 33 1972 Lines Stag Estate Tartan Red

Blog http://vml3m.blogspot.com/

torque2me
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:52 pm
Location: Hatfield

Re: Interior fabric

#32 Post by torque2me » Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:06 pm

Alan.
Alan Chatterton wrote: The Stag owners club have about 5000 members, so of course they are big enough to have the SOCTF. (Tooling fund to help get parts remade).

We don't have the numbers, so we don't have the funds. Simple maths.

There is A spares club which is supported by us, for the members which is doing this very thing. Windscreens have been done, and I think we has a take up of under 40. that's about 5% of our membership.

I say again though, we need people to help us if you want to do more things, so thank you Kev for your kind offer of assistance, I'll get some paperwork in the post to you so you can join us and get some of these important jobs done.

Personally, I would like to us to do more, much more. But money and volunteers are just not forth coming.
If the membership want this, then why don't we have more people in the spares club?
I'm not being negative, but I can't see how to do this, if you can, come and help us achieve it.
Are you really trying to tell me that this club has never had 5,000 members at it's pinnacle?

What you posted underlines what I, and others, have been saying for a while now and that is No Spares = No cars = No owners = no club = no members. That is why there is not 5,000 members in this club. The Stag production was only 26k compared to over 300k for the Big Six. Now if they have got 5k members for 26k, we should have 50k members.

What spares club are you talking about? The one set up by Ted and Co. a couple of years ago. That was set up by frustrated members because they need spares. The club took it's normal "We don't do spares and we don't want to involve ourselves" attitude at the time. I did read the posts and all you have to do to recall them is do a word search. And by the way I did pony up my share of the money to get SOCTL going so I do know a few things. The SOC did not get all members to cough up but enough did so to get things moving because they knew the importance of this for a low volume production vehicle where the parent company scrapped much of the tooling when the marque was dropped.

As I said before, tell the last member left in the club that spares instigated by the club is not important. Look at some of the back issues of six appeal (say 20 years ago) and look through them on a yearly basis. What came across to me when I did so was the number of local/regional groups that have gone. It means that this trend will continue as only a very fortunate few will be able to afford bespoke panels and parts machined in 1 off's.

Kev

User avatar
Alan Chatterton
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2945
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:18 pm
Location: Redditch, Worcestershire

Re: Interior fabric

#33 Post by Alan Chatterton » Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:00 pm

We have never had anywhere near that number of members!!!!! Come on, be serious.

It sounds like you are blaming the current club officers for how things were run 20 years ago........... Really?!

I'll say it again, if you want things to he done, then we need people to come and do them, we don't have enough manpower to do more than we already are. I love this club, I really do. I get very upset when people stand on the sidelines and criticise what we do, with no regard for the amount of time we spend trying to run this club as best we can for the good of the cars and the members. I would live to do more, grow the club, bigger membership which in turn means we can do more. It's a self fulfilling thing.
But how do we do that? How and who? Again, pleas for help and you get silence in return.
Alan Chatterton

Location; Redditch

DEL 33 1972 Lines Stag Estate Tartan Red

Blog http://vml3m.blogspot.com/

User avatar
CAR
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2782
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:40 am
Location: Doncaster, South Yorkshire

Re: Interior fabric

#34 Post by CAR » Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:03 am

torque2me wrote: No cars = no members. No members = no club. You have to get real on this issue. That is the bottom line. There is no long term future for a club that do "not do spares". I wonder what the alternative Big Six club is doing on the issue. I must contact them!
Kev
The other club connected to the spares group, Club Triumph, of which many of us are members, took the same view as the Register about getting involved financially in the remanufacture of parts long since obselete. With a membership at least twice the amount that ours is, they must have finances on a similar scale, but still the only part they were willing to play was that of advertising support both in their magazine and at shows with flyers.
They are run by volunteers just like the Register, not as a business. They have no paid staff, business managers, premises or such like, just lots of enthusiasm.
If CT was the club to which you were referring, please go and talk to them about what they are doing, perhaps on their forum so that we can all see how the responses go.

Colin
Colin and Amanda Radford
Register Show Organisers and Directors
'75'N' 2500S CARMINE ESTATE France easter'09, RBRR'10,'12. TEAM 48 RBRR'16 'HOE'
'71'J' 2.5PI VALENCIA SALOON France easter'10, RBRR'14 'FRanK'
'69'G' VALENCIA SALOON c/w BMW 2.5 24valve and 5spd box 'JO'

User avatar
SimonO
Groupie
Groupie
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:09 pm
Location: Lincoln

Re: Interior fabric

#35 Post by SimonO » Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:05 am

I can see why Members get frustrated, but unless people get stuck in - the club, and the cars, will be killed off by apathy; mainly from people only wanting to get involved whilst sat in front of a computer.

I joined the committee of the Spares Club as I wanted to show support. I know nothing of parts re-manufacture, but I do know I want my 2000 to be on the road for a considerable time to come. We're struggling as we cannot get enough 'hands on' people to get involved, or the support in numbers to cover the initial costs of most initiatives. We're at a point where the lack of support means that we may not be able to continue...

I am the Local Area organiser for the TSSC. I have been a member of the TR Drivers Club, Club Triumph and 2000 Register as my cars and/or my requirements for help have changed. A year or so ago, we changed the meets to be "Lincolnshire Triumphs" to bring the clubs together but we have had little interest. All Register members are more than welcome to join us, but no-one has. We're at a point where the lack of support means that we may not be willing to continue...

A few people in a Spares Committee or on the Board of a small car club simply cannot do what is needed; and they shouldn't be lambasted by this limitation. At least they're trying! I am worried about levelling too much criticism at the Register Committee otherwise they'll be at a point where the lack of support means that they may not be willing to continue...

I paid peanuts for my 2000, and I will have spent a fortune getting it roadworthy - many times it's worth. But I love the car - I just wish more people got involved so that it wasn't so damned expensive and hard to find good quality parts!!!

User avatar
Alan Chatterton
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2945
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:18 pm
Location: Redditch, Worcestershire

Re: Interior fabric

#36 Post by Alan Chatterton » Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:13 am

Good points well made.
Alan Chatterton

Location; Redditch

DEL 33 1972 Lines Stag Estate Tartan Red

Blog http://vml3m.blogspot.com/

User avatar
TedTaylor
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:27 pm
Location: Forest of Dean (Gloucestershire)

Re: Interior fabric

#37 Post by TedTaylor » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:37 pm

Kev I really must take issue with you over the comments that you are making.

Firstly on the matter of potential membership as it does not take note of historic reality - and I am old enough to have been a driver aware of and interested in the 2000 since it launch in 1963!

When the Stag was produced it was always aimed at a niche market costing 20% more than the nearest equivalent (top of the range) saloon, and despite its engineering problems that cachet has never been lost. Hence the survival rate of Stags has always reflected that people who wanted them were prepared to pay good money for them or spend a lot of money on them getting them right. While I know this is not the attitude of all Stag owners but during this Summer on three occasions I had contact with them when I was driving my Mk2. On two separate occasions I was driving in the Forest and saw a Stag so needless to say waved to them ......... but the only response was a stoney stare then look away. On the third occasion I parked alongside a Stag in a local car park and tried to engage in the usual Triumph conversation with the owner but was rebuffed. This attitude of exclusivity (obviously people who are not Triumph enthusiasts is why Stags have survived in far greater relative numbers that the saloon.

The numbers of cars that you suggest should have survived fails to take into account what would happen to a model during it production life span. When launched, and for a few years after, the mas production model would get a cachet for being 'new' and people would take care of them ...... but then they would be 'old hat' and purchased and used to be run into the ground and then disposed of ESPECIALLY when a new model was launched. In terms of our cars the original Mk1 models would have been 'hack car' fodder after 7 years when the Mk2 was launched - as a friend of mine did when he bought a Mk1 saloon in 1970 for £50 and used it to cart his engineering equipment around in until after about 5 years it fell apart with the treatment he gave it and scrapped it at (10 years old).

When I bought my Mk1 saloon in 1989 I would have preferred a Mk2 as being more modern looking but it had to be a Mk1 to be able to go historic rallying with - Mk1 were considered oddities otherwise. When you consider that my car was about the 13000 one off the production line at the beginning of July but consider that it is only the 7th oldest recorded as surviving this puts a new complexion on your figures - seven survivors out of 13000 ........ :shock: These sorts of figures are reflected throughout the Mk1 survival figures, and even with the Mk2 being until the last year or so more desirable their survival rate is pretty dire. In many respects the problem is due to the low price that people are prepared to pay for a car and hence the lack of interest in paying a price for parts (e.g. wings) that reflects what their costs are to reproduce. Nowadays my wife and I are very fond of our old Mk1 saloon and I am in the process of spending far more on it than it is worth to get it sorted and back on the road along with my Mk1 PI estate, which does have a value that makes spending lots of money on it cost effective.

Your comments on the matter of the formation of the Spares Group do not reflect the true situation. While there was some frustration over lack of spares when we formed the TSG, the points that Alan made above were brought out in the discussions and accepted and hence the formation of the Group. The idea being that it would cater for two clubs, the Register and Club Triumph though the latter caters for only a small number of 'our' cars, to make potential sales number more achievable. The idea was that the club existed with the support/approval of these two main clubs, and gave their members a potential spares facility - you have to be a member of the Register or CT to join the TSG and these clubs advise us when we want to confirm membership details.

The fact that owners/club members have not taken advantage of the facility of the TSG (struggled to only 40 members) is a reflection on them and NOT the Register. You can take a horse to water but ............ etc. This lack of active support is why as Oliver says the TSG is struggling, especially as I must step back from it because of some health issues - I am struggling to get my car and myself healthy enough for the RBRR at present!

On the subject of another club for our cars, yes another small one exists and a number of Register members are also members of that one. I personally have gone down the Register/CT route in my choice of clubs - the Register since 1990 and CT since WCR40 in 2010 because of my wider interest in all Triumph cars than just the 'big sixes'.

Finally. Spares re-manufacture can only be viable if people are prepared to pay the cost of the re-manufacture of the parts/material which all to often people are not. For example Lloyd in his excellent work on the panels must have found things frustrating that so many people would say a panel was required, investigate at personal expense in cost and time because he is an enthusiast their re-manufacture, come up with a product at a fair price and no personal profit (especially compared with similar offerings from other cars), yet people say they are too expensive. This is not to criticise the people who would pay the price as fair but have to put things on the back burner due to personal cash flow.

Then there is the situation of Chris Witor, a great supporter of our cars and the Register who often invests money into re-manufacture of a product because people say they are desperate for that item ...... then they do not put their money where their mouths are. The seat diaphragm situation is a case in point as he has a large unsold stock as I saw when I visited him a month ago.

Gawd that WAS a long one - sorry.

MUT
Member 4473 1990
1964 2000 period rally look alike AFH 849B
Morris 1800 London-Sydney/Monte/WCR NAM 616G
Mk1 PI Estate SCG 115G
2500 Estate WDE 76K RBRR 2014

torque2me
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:52 pm
Location: Hatfield

Re: Interior fabric

#38 Post by torque2me » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:21 pm

Alan,
Alan Chatterton wrote:We have never had anywhere near that number of members!!!!! Come on, be serious.

It sounds like you are blaming the current club officers for how things were run 20 years ago........... Really?!

I'll say it again, if you want things to he done, then we need people to come and do them, we don't have enough manpower to do more than we already are. I love this club, I really do. I get very upset when people stand on the sidelines and criticise what we do, with no regard for the amount of time we spend trying to run this club as best we can for the good of the cars and the members. I would live to do more, grow the club, bigger membership which in turn means we can do more. It's a self fulfilling thing.
But how do we do that? How and who? Again, pleas for help and you get silence in return.

I'm not putting all the blame on the present club officers, they have only compounded the last 25 years of ignoring the issue. My initial post on the subject (not this thread) alluded to myself having raised the issue of parts provision at an AGM only for the "committee" to say 'we don't want to get into these areas, we leave all that to Chris Witor'.

There is no point in exchanging further posts on this subject. I have managed to get the message though to my inner brain cell over those 25 years and thus we will always remain miles apart. I only post occassional messages on this theme so that negative committee members cannot say "nobody has contacted us or raised such an issue".

I'll print this once again. Without vehicles there will not be members numbered in the thousands and the club may only consist of 'living memory' enthusiasts. Remember, steel always wants to get back to nature.

Kev
Last edited by torque2me on Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

torque2me
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:52 pm
Location: Hatfield

Re: Interior fabric

#39 Post by torque2me » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:25 pm

CAR wrote:
torque2me wrote: colin,

No cars = no members. No members = no club. You have to get real on this issue. That is the bottom line. There is no long term future for a club that do "not do spares". I wonder what the alternative Big Six club is doing on the issue. I must contact them!
Kev

If CT was the club to which you were referring, please go and talk to them about what they are doing, perhaps on their forum so that we can all see how the responses go.

Colin
No, it was not CT I was thinking of. It was the break-away group set-up about 15 years or more.

Kev

JimB
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 467
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:27 pm
Location: Winchester

Re: Interior fabric

#40 Post by JimB » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:45 pm

I'm glad this topic has resurfaced, because it allows me to highlight some important yet frustrating realities I've picked up during my career, a large portion of which was spent working with suppliers of parts to OE car manufacturers.

Manufacturing of parts, even when using 'cheap' prototype tooling/jigs/fixtures, is tremendously capital intensive. This is true even in this wonderful age of rapid prototyping, innovative low-volume production processes and highly competitive supplier and toolmaker marketplaces.

Ironically, production of parts once tooling is available and properly commissioned is relatively inexpensive.

So, unless serious capital is available at the start of any project or if a supplier is willing to amortise tooling/production costs into the final piece price, then the numbers simply do not stack up, primarily due to the low volumes of Big Sixes still in existence.

There are glimmers of hope though, driven by passionate folk like Chris W, Lloyd R and Richard S, who are willing to take a commercial punt and pursue such projects. Frankly, I think the work they're doing is bloody great.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests