Timing engine.

[Sloppy 2000]

I have been a bit confused lately...mmmm

I have a MK1 and it seems to be difficult to time. I have tried to get it to pink and had it pinking once but since electronic ignition I don't seem to get it to pink. I understand there is a difference between static and strobe timing.

Ideally I want to have it running the best. Some people have suggested running on additives, Alan Chatterton has suggested this is not a worry but does it make any difference running on super unleaded which is nearer the original octane rating?

What are the strobe timings for each one i.e. unleaded and super unleaded. Is there much in dynamic settings. I find it difficult to get it to pink so why is this? With Powerspark electronic ignition the distributor does not have much turn to it and I wonder if this may be an issue (as you already have to have it fairly round clock wise to begin with). I can though set it to a fair advance if I want to, like 16. I am sure this will get a few responses...

When it is over advanced it started as if it is really compressed and difficult to turn over from starter. But it still did not pink.

Also it is on unleaded, should it be retarded. I understand 8degrees BTC is somewhere handy but I do not know if that is static or strobe.
Is it worth/cheaper to use octane boosters/Redex.

Jeff

[johnnydog]

The basic ignition timing for a Mk1 2000 as you say is 8 degrees BTDC. This is the same with a strobe light or statically, although you should disconnect the vacuum advance pipe from the distributor whilst setting it with the strobe to avoid any possibility of the vacuum advance operating (if the revs are correct at about 700 rpm, this shouldn't theoretically happen).
Unleaded or super unleaded, the ignition timing on all my cars is the original Triumph book settings. However, I use an additive, Millers VSP e, which allegedly helps protect against valve seat recession, and the harmful effects of ethanol, plus providing a couple of RON octane boost. I don't get any pinking, even when towing. However, many people don't bother with additives; unless your car has 'hard' use doing a lot of mileage, then the lead memory should protect the valve seats for some considerable time.
I would also check that you have the correct distributor fitted to your car. Due to their age, it wouldn't be unlikely that the distributor has been replaced at some time, and although the 25D's may look the same, there are different types and advance units (the amount of advance in degrees at different revs is stamped into the 'trumpet on the vacuum advance unit). There are specific distributors for your model; the number is stamped at the base of the distributor body). If the wrong distributor is fitted, then you will never ever get it running correctly; it will either be over advancing (pink at the slightest acceleration) or be grossly retarded (and you probably could advance it significantly and it would not pink at all, but still be terribly flat).
I only suggest this as I had significant running issues with a Mk1 a couple of years ago; it would pink in all gears, and on any incline. No matter how much I retarded it, I couldn't get it to stop pinking. I then found that the distributor wasn't correct for the car, and probably more of the cause, the vacuum advance was wrong giving incorrect degrees of advance at certain rev ranges. I fitted a correct distributor and vacuum advance, and it was like driving a new car!
I understand that with electronic ignition, the timing may be set differently from standard depending on the type fitted, and the plug gap has to be increased to possibly 40 thou, but this should be in the manufacturers instructions.
I personally have never bothered with electronic ignition - all mine still run on points with no real issues. If it ran ok before the electronic ignition, I would take it off, and then see how it runs before deciding whether to try refitting it.
Lastly, is it possible that the engine is 180 degrees out?
There may also be some more knowledgable suggestions coming from others soon perhaps !?!

[Alec]

Hello Jeff,

I've little to add to Jonny's comprehensive reply, except that from what I've read increasing plug gaps is not a good idea as it stresses the H.T. side of the igntion and causes more wear to the plugs with no advantage. It does depend on the distributor as to whether static and dynamic timing coincides. Some distributors advance mechanically at lower than idle speed so the dynamic setting will be higher than static.

Alec

[Sloppy 2000]

OK thanks you two, that is a helpful place to start. I will have a look at the distributor first as that seems to be the place to start. I also will consider putting it back on to points.

With regards 180 degrees, how would I find out if that were the case.

Thanks so much for your help.

[Alec]

Hello Jeff,

it won't run at 180 degrees out.

There is the 'standard' layout but in reality you can set the distributor at 180 degrees from that as long as the leads go to the correct cylinders it makes no real difference.

Alec

[Vox]

On my PFL Mk2 there is definitely a difference between static and strobed timing (I did a thread on this a while back) as I found that if you set it statically at 10 degrees (correct for PFL Mk2) and then checked it with a strobe it was about 16 degrees or so, with or without the vacuum advance - but then the recomended tickover speed for mine (with CDSE carbs) is around 850rpm so that may affect it somewhat.

I read 1970s Car Mechanics magazines and in the readers help pages people would write in to ask this exact question and while on some cars it was the same, often the figure for strobing would be different to the static one.

My Crypton data book doesn't quote a strobed figure, just the static but maybe Leyland never issued a figure for it - it certainly isn't in the Leyland manual.

Not sure if that helps!
Chris
OOY22L

[Sloppy 2000]

Thanks Everyone,

I am going to put the points back in and time it statically and see what happens. I haven't done a static time for 28 years, but am sure it will come back to me. It was on a 1300 dolomite!

Jeff

[johnnydog]

On my PFL Mk2 I found that if you set it statically at 10 degrees (correct for PFL Mk2) and then checked it with a strobe it was about 16 degrees or so
Chris
OOY22L

I take it your engine is post ME 50000 with the timing being 10 degrees BTDC, as pre ME 50000 should be 8 degrees BTDC.

[tony]

With modern fuels ,I'm not sure if the original specs have much relevance.
I tend to run 98 octane fuel ( the best that's available here) and set the dizzy to just get rid of the pinking and leave it there.
Tony.

[Alec]

Hello Tony,

fuels may have changed but the burn rate is a function of the combustion chamber shape etc, so although the timing may need swinging, the advance curve should still hold good today. I.e., make sure that the correct distributor is fitted.

Alec