Misfiring solved ! (I hope)

Engine Oily Bits, Ignition, Fuelling, Cooling, Exhaust, etc.
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tony
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Re: Misfiring solved ! (I hope)

#21 Post by tony » Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:54 pm

If your dizzy had red points , LU163 is correct.
I seem to remember having a similar problem fitting mine. make sure there are no burrs on the shaft and try turning it around trying the six positions. Mine did fit in the end but the collar is a tight fit on the shaft.
Tony.
1976 2500 TC. converted to S specs.

Lots of bits

1999 BMW Z3.
2006 BMW 325ti.
Hopefully not needing too many bits.
1998 Rover 600



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Clifford Pope
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Re: Misfiring solved ! (I hope)

#22 Post by Clifford Pope » Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:54 pm

Do you mean the fibre heel? It's the usual sort of reddy/brown. I don't recall any choice - it's the one CW supplied for that distributor model.
What is the significance of the different coloured points, and how can I tell which it ought to have? Would the wrong colour still fit, so misleading me into what Aldon kit I need?

tony
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Re: Misfiring solved ! (I hope)

#23 Post by tony » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:51 pm

Mine is on an S, which originally had red plastic on the Lucas points. I think all f/l 2500's had these fitted. Could you try chamfering the edge on the cam with a stone to give a bit of a lead for the plastic collar?
I think all the cams are the same size though. Think now I gave my collar a slight tap with a wooden block to fit mine.
Tony.
1976 2500 TC. converted to S specs.

Lots of bits

1999 BMW Z3.
2006 BMW 325ti.
Hopefully not needing too many bits.
1998 Rover 600



.

Clifford Pope
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Re: Misfiring solved ! (I hope)

#24 Post by Clifford Pope » Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:09 pm

I've spoken to the Distributor Doctor and he says 163 is the correct model. There is only one size of cam on the D45 distributor regardless of points colour, but manufacturing tolerances can vary quite a lot and the plastic may need gentle carving away.
Quite a lot of force is acceptable, but not "too much". I've read on American Petronix forums that too much means when it later splits in service.

Also the hole for the fixing screw needs to be elongated so that the gap can be adjusted to 25 thou.
It's not quite plug and play. :)

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Alec
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Re: Misfiring solved ! (I hope)

#25 Post by Alec » Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:41 pm

Hello Cliff,

what price is that unit as it seems less than satisfactory that it may need carving to make it fit or that you need to judge how much force to use?

Alec
0465

MK1.5 2.5 P.I.
Jaguar MK 2 (Long term restoration.)
Hymer 564 Motorhome.

tony
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Re: Misfiring solved ! (I hope)

#26 Post by tony » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:21 am

Cliff,
I don't think I'd be too worried about slotting the base plate.
I fitted 3 Pertronix units to my Triumphs, which judging by the part numbers are the same as your's with a different name. Nothing in the instructions about setting gap so never did so.
I did fit one to a Cortina, this one did come with instructions to set gap.
Apart from one which was tight like yours never had any problems with mine. They seem to work well.
Tony.
1976 2500 TC. converted to S specs.

Lots of bits

1999 BMW Z3.
2006 BMW 325ti.
Hopefully not needing too many bits.
1998 Rover 600



.

Clifford Pope
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Re: Misfiring solved ! (I hope)

#27 Post by Clifford Pope » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:51 am

tony wrote:Cliff,
Nothing in the instructions about setting gap so never did so.
The collar would rub on the module if I don't set a gap. The instructions say enlarging the fixing hole may be necessary on another model, no actual reference to this one.
The plate is a good snug fit, and would pivot just like adjusting points if the hole were enlarged or slotted.
Some kits apparently come with a plastic 25thou feeler gauge.

£67 + VAT from Distributor Doctor. The Aldon Ignitor is made by Petronix in America, so same thing but a different name.

Clifford Pope
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Re: Misfiring solved ! (I hope)

#28 Post by Clifford Pope » Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:02 am

I'm still getting nowhere with this.
I got a replacement kit from DD, and the collar is a nice snug fit this time. But the initial timing was absolutely hopeless - the engine spluttered and tried to run backwards - obviously grossly advanced.
I turned the distributor to the point where it can fire at 8 degrees BTDC, but the degree of rotation necessary is about half a segment distance round. So the rotor points half way between two segments, and of course it misfires horribly.

So something is seriously wrong either with the Aldon/Petronix kit (unlikely, it's the listed one for the distributor), or else the distributor is non-standard and has come from something else.
The problem seems to be that the module is in the wrong place for the orientation of the cam lobes. But that's not possible because the holes only allow one position (approximately where the condensor used to be.

Refitting the old points, I've again had problems with the springy strip trying to jump out of the plastic saddle and then touching the distributor casing.

I'm toying now between two alternatives:
Complete new electronic distributor, as advertised on eBay (but risk of not matching correct advance/retard curve), or
Complete set of old original points, plate etc, the kind with the little stepped plastic insulating collars and the nut to hold them all on the threaded post.

tony
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Re: Misfiring solved ! (I hope)

#29 Post by tony » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:03 am

Cliff,
It almost sounds as if the relationship between the distributor drive and the distributor is out somehow. If you remove the dizzy does the drive slot line up as is shown in the manual when at TDC? Almost sounds as if the valve timing is out. Could this be possible?
Tony.
1976 2500 TC. converted to S specs.

Lots of bits

1999 BMW Z3.
2006 BMW 325ti.
Hopefully not needing too many bits.
1998 Rover 600



.

Clifford Pope
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Posts: 889
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:50 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Misfiring solved ! (I hope)

#30 Post by Clifford Pope » Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:51 am

I don't see how the distributor position or valve timing can be wrong - the car runs perfectly with the old points. It's just that they are very difficult to set up and maintain in adjustment because of their poor design compared with the very old kind.

The relationship between the cam lobes and the rotor arm is permanent. But where the rotor is pointing at the moment a lobe triggers firing depends on where the points or sensor are mounted on the base plate. The position for the standard points is clearly correct - they work. The Aldon module uses the same fixing screw and is designed to fit in only one place on the plate - but that causes ignition at a moment when the rotor arm is not coincident with any of the cap segments. So the engine runs, appallingly, presumably because the spark manages to jump erratically from the arm to the nearest segment.

So the kit, despite being the one listed, is not compatible with the actual distributor, and should have a different mounting plate that puts the module in a different place on the circumference.
Or the collar is the wrong one and has the magnets in the wrong place.

It's completely baffling and very very frustrating. I haven't yet had a chance to talk to the DD.

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