Kienzle time clocks which went in what?

[johnnydog]

The spares I have are all from previously scrapped models of these ranges.

Does that include any that don't work?

Now I have the tools and spares, I can fix most of the clockwork ones. Some models aren't worth much even fixed, but some are worth repairing.

The transistorized electromagnetic ones are more difficult, and the best I can do is sometimes make one that works from three or four that don't. But because I think they are crap, I don't much like to sell the ones I can get working. So they mostly get stripped for spares for the similar looking clockwork ones - and twice now parts to convert a later Kienzle quartz clock to look like an early Dolomite one (pics 1&2 above). I'm currently working on a quartz clock that will look like the one in picture 5, but will actually keep time to a few minutes a year.

Graham

As far as I'm aware, all the clocks I have do work, but some will be from scrapped cars that are untested.

[GrahamF]

As far as I'm aware, all the clocks I have do work, but some will be from scrapped cars that are untested.

You know about the internal, thermal fuse in almost all* the Kienzle remontoire clockwork ones?

It's a low temperature melting rivet next to the solenoid the winds the remontoire spring (which then drives the clockwork). The rivet holds a sprung arm that feeds the solenoid when the points close every couple of minutes. A lot of these fuses have not exactly melted, but appear to have fallen apart. When the clock can look perfect, but won't go clunk and run.

I suspect the problem comes from when the battery goes flat while attached to the car. At some voltage, well below 12v, the solenoid won't kick the points hard enough for them to open and whatever charge is left in the battery all runs out through the solenoid. That may not heat the infernal thermal fuse up enough to melt it - there are some suggestions it should have a melting temperature of about 90C. However, while it doesn't actually melt it, it may be enough to increase the brittleness a bit. Eventually the rivet falls apart and the clock just stops. Here's a picture of one that was just about to go, the closest I've seen on a clock that was working. It fell off when I barely touched it with a screwdriver. For scale, the thread in the bottom left is a shade bigger than M2.5 - I assume it's UNC 3-48, but I've never needed to buy new ones.

So I reckon it's not safe to assume any of these clockwork Kienzle ones work. Indeed, when I see them on eBay and the like, if it says untested, I assume it needs that fuse fixing: I solder them up with normal temperature stuff, and fit an inline fuse holder outside the case - who wants a fuse inside something where there's no access; we'll, that is, except for a clever manufacturer that wants them to fail sometime, but not too soon, after the guarantee's run-out.

*The only ones I've seen without the fuse, are some of the model 8015 clocks I've been told came out of Jaguars.

[Clifford Pope]

Now you have fully mastered all the varieties of the round Mk 2 clocks you can start on the oblong Mark 1's

[GrahamF]

Now you have fully mastered all the varieties of the round Mk 2 clocks you can start on the oblong Mark 1's

I did take one of the rectangular Smiths clocks apart once. I'm not intending to try that again.

At least as difficult to fix as the Kienzle electromagnetic escapement clocks, and no spares in them that I can use elsewhere.

Graham

[Charles H]

Have you done one of the early pre facelift Mk2 Smiths round clock? the one with the hand adjuster at the bottom left.

[GrahamF]

Have you done one of the early pre facelift Mk2 Smiths round clock? the one with the hand adjuster at the bottom left.

No, I've never had one. I only had a look at a couple of rectangular ones because they came in a job lot with some faulty Kienzle ones. I didn't get very far with them before I gave-up for not having the specific tools - I've mandrels and hand-pullers and such, all made to suit the Kienzles, and I'd have to start that process afresh for the Smiths ones.

Graham

[Charles H]

I have dismantled the Smiths ones. It all comes apart pretty easily by removing the bezel. These are my prefered clocks, and they seem to work a lot longer than the Kienzle ones. No idea about the inside really, but they go clonk and that winds it. It then appears to be a mechanical clockwork mechanism.

[GrahamF]

I have dismantled the Smiths ones. It all comes apart pretty easily by removing the bezel. These are my preferred clocks, and they seem to work a lot longer than the Kienzle ones. No idea about the inside really, but they go clonk and that winds it. It then appears to be a mechanical clockwork mechanism.

I find the early Kienzle, two-handed clockwork ones are quite good, apart from the infernal fuse. The later, three-handed clockwork ones are a bit plastic, and have the same fuse problem, and I sometimes have much trouble getting them to run reliably. The electromagnetic ones are just bad. The quartz one always work except when I broke the first one I had getting in to fix the hands. I have one of those that has been converted to look like an earlier clockwork one on eBay at the moment.

But if I do get a clockwork Smiths' one, I'll have a look inside.

Graham

[GrahamF]

Looks like I forgot to mention that the two rectangular Smiths' ones I already looked inside were both electromagnetic, with an oscillating armature instead of a balance wheel and mainspring, etc. They were a bit like the mechanism in the middle period Kienzle clocks, but I don't remember any transistors.

Graham

[Charles H]

I have three of these, one beyond repair in bits, one in the car that occasionally works and another inoperative (from memory). Would you like to have a go at making one (or two) out of these if i send them all to you to see if you can get one to work. Happy to pay costs. PM me if interested.